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Drain for softener..what should I know?

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luckydriver
 
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 03:59 pm
currently my culligan has a tube coming out of it then it goes up to the ceiling and over a doorway and then down into a laundry tub.

When i talked to a local guy on the phone he mentioned (i forget the term) and also said they need to make sure it doesnt back up into the sewer. So what was he talking about? I didnt want to question him more since they are coming out next week but wanted to hear what you guys said about what he meant.

I just cant understand what issue there would be and if this old culligan could pump the water up and over the doorway why shouldnt a new one be able to do that and just drain into the sink?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,839 • Replies: 23
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justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 04:26 pm
Re: Drain for softener..what should I know?
luckydriver wrote:
When i talked to a local guy on the phone he mentioned (i forget the term) and also said they need to make sure it doesn't back up into the sewer. So what was he talking about?


Does air gap sound familiar?

I believe you misquoted local guy... it would be they need to make sure it doesn't back up from the sewer not into the sewer.
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H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 04:29 pm
An air gap and a short unfettered run are key to ideal system performance.
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 04:40 pm
possibly...if it's not air gap what could it be related to drainage and what would be different about a new system that my old system's method wouldnt work?

so what's air gap?
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justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 04:56 pm
luckydriver wrote:
... and what would be different about a new system that my old system's method wouldn't work?


I don't recall you defining your new system

luckydriver wrote:
so what's air gap?


Google plumbing air gap
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:45 pm
just in general...is there a reason why a system cant drain overhead like my old one did? while going to the floor drain is possible, it would mean a hose permanently running across the floor
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:53 pm
ok i read this page

http://www.abetterairgap.com/article.htm

and it seems like this in no way applies to my situation unless i'm reading it wrong (im sure you will correct me).

my hose goes into a laundry tub and it mentions something about sewer backup. Well i'm way up on a hill and i cant imagine the immense amount of pressure there wouldhave to be for the street sewer to back up into my house. it would be up 10ft vertically and back about 80ft horizontally.
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:57 pm
just jarred my memory..he said drip loop, not air gap
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justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:17 pm
luckydriver wrote:
my hose goes into a laundry tub and it mentions something about sewer backup.


If the softener drain line runs to the laundry tub and doesn't have an air gap, which may be what your local guy calls a "drip loop", and the sewer backs up into the tub, the sewage can siphon back through the softener drain into your potable water.

An air gap is required by plumbing code on a softener drain if you're in the US.

luckydriver wrote:
Well i'm way up on a hill and i cant imagine the immense amount of pressure there would have to be for the street sewer to back up into my house. it would be up 10ft vertically and back about 80ft horizontally.


Not really, if your sewer line from the house gets blocked and you continue using water that runs to drain, after a while there'd be nowhere for the water to go down the drain and it'd back up into the lowest tub or sink and then work back. Then you call Roto Rooter and give them a bunch of money and be glad your softener installer was a pro and used an air gap at the laundry tub as the code mandates OR you now have sewage in your plumbing system and you give a plumber lots of money to clean your plumbing system out and sanitize it.

Try reading here ... about air gaps and click on "plumbing codes".
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:33 pm
ok i skimmed that article. I guess i'll have to wait for the guy to come and explain it to me like a 5th grader as i simply cant understand what's going on and required. My water line is above the laundry tub and even if the tub was totally full, it couldnt possibly reach the plastic pipe. simply impossible.

also there is a Y pipe at the washer where that water used to go in but since it clogged a while ago i have that going into the laundry tub too. Now yes, i do see that that hanging in the tub is probably not a good idea.
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justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:38 pm
luckydriver wrote:
My water line is above the laundry tub and even if the tub was totally full, it couldn't possibly reach the plastic pipe. simply impossible.


If by "water line" you mean the softener drain line then that IS an air gap

Just wait for whoever you've decided is worthy of your trust and your money to come and do their job. You can question them as they do your install.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 07:48 pm
And for the record, I don't do installs. Or carries. I will do cash, though.
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 07:05 am
justalurker wrote:
luckydriver wrote:
My water line is above the laundry tub and even if the tub was totally full, it couldn't possibly reach the plastic pipe. simply impossible.


If by "water line" you mean the softener drain line then that IS an air gap

Just wait for whoever you've decided is worthy of your trust and your money to come and do their job. You can question them as they do your install.


now that i have terminology straight, thats great news, i'm already prepared Smile Should cut down on install cost too

and technically i think i will question them as they are quoting a price, not as they are "doing the install" Smile I prefer to know up front how things will be setup rather than just blindly trust someone to do it
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 11:32 am
ok this is weird, i havent recharged in 2 weeks so figured why not just try it and if it leaks more, no biggie

it went thru the 1st cycle (no i dont know what it does first) and then started something else and is now draining into the laundry tub..well from underneath it is NOT leaking anymore.

i just did 2 loads of wash thru the softener and it was leaking bad but i guess whatever cycle it is on now changed something inside and it's not leaking

so any guesses what's leaking based on this info?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 12:48 pm
I can't find where you mentioned a leak before this... So since water usually runs downhill, trace the water up to were it is coming out of something and tell us what that thing is. It's probably the control valve. And it may not leak during a regeneration but will in the Service position. If so by pass the softener.

BTW, all softeners can have their drain line run up over a doorway and back down. And your you have an air gap as long as the drain line can't be touched by water backing up in the sink before it overflows.
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luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 01:36 pm
the leak is the entire reason i even posted anything here Smile it's leaking from under the value body and i'm not knowledgeable enough to rip it apart..culligan said cant fix it as they dont make parts anymore

and i've been bypassing the softener for 2 weeks and my skin's been paying for it as does my wash and dishwasher so i turn it back on when i do those things and just sop up the water
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 10:58 am
You sure the leak isn't the drain line connection on the control valve?

If it isn't, and Culligan doesn't make or have parts to repair it, your only choice is to replace the softener because industry standard control valves can't mate to the old Culligan tanks. That's the biggest problem with buying proprietary equipment.
0 Replies
 
luckydriver
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 06:15 pm
is that something i should be able to see from the outside? see, it's leaking from where the timer meets the valve i think. there's a silver elongated piece that is where the water comes down thru but of course that doesnt mean that's where the leak is in reality. I guess i could take the cover off.

they said 90 bucks for culligan to come out and tell me it's not repairable...but maybe it would be...dont know. And they would credit the 90 to a new system but i dont wanna pay 1900 or even 1400 for the medallian.

oh and if it is the drain value you asked about, would it still leak even while not recharging and then stop once i did start the recharging process
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 06:27 pm
luckydriver wrote:
it's leaking from where the timer meets the valve i think.


Can you post a pic of exactly where it's leaking?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:22 am
luckydriver wrote:
is that something i should be able to see from the outside? see, it's leaking from where the timer meets the valve i think. there's a silver elongated piece that is where the water comes down thru but of course that doesnt mean that's where the leak is in reality. I guess i could take the cover off.

The drain line is the water line tha tgoes over the doorway to the sink! I guess you can take the cover off too. LOL You need to find where the water is leaking, whatever that takes.

luckydriver wrote:
oh and if it is the drain value you asked about, would it still leak even while not recharging and then stop once i did start the recharging process

But I didn't say drain valve... I said drain line.

Yes where the drain line connects to the control valve, before it goes up'n over the doorway and down to the sink, could leak between regenerations and the water could run down the valve and tank to the floor but.... it's a stretch but we need to keep an open mind to be able to troubleshoot so we need to entertain all possibilities. Or you simply go buy a whole new softener, which you say you don't want to do and can't afford IIRC. Not to mention that it's usually always better to fix something if it's an inexpensive fix, than to buy new one.

The leak is much more likely to be on the control valve solenoids or where the piston comes out through the end cap. That stuff is under a cover on the front of the control valve in front of the backing plate...
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