0
   

Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 04:03 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
Happy Kwanzaa then


Absolutely. If that floats your boat and makes you happy, it sure doesn't take anything away from my celebration in order for you to celebrate yours.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 04:17 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
And Christians want to exercise their right to celebrate their own festival/feast day...


Actually, it's the two days (25th and 26th) plus the thirsd Christmas holiday, Epiphanias - in the Lutheran traditon.

Which is the reason that the German word for Christmas is actually plural, Weihnachten, only rarely in the singular form Weihnacht.
That refers more to ['Catholic'] Christmas = Christ's mass, which was/is held in the night of 24th to 25th.

For reformed Evangelicals, is a day/period like any other - with a lot of tradition, though.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 04:32 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Hi Intrepid, Mesquite, everybody else who sent greetings. . . .

I have no problem with department stores who use Happy Holidays. I have a HUGE problems with stores who would refuse to allow their employees to return a cheery "Merry Christmas" to the customers or who make a big deal about making sure that there are no references or symbols of Christmas at all.


I whole heartedly agree that for an employer to disallow an employee to return a greeting in kind is asinine. Once you are greeted with whatever, the unknown element has been removed and from that point forward it can only go downhill to return a generic greeting.

I would think that any such occurrences being directed by management would be extremely rare. It is more likely to happen due to the ignorance or attitude of individual employees.

If you have any reference to such actions I would be interested in seeing them.

As for store decorations I suspect that the marketing gurus try to appeal to as large of a segment of the population as possible and thus seasonal themes, but to purposely disenfranchise a large segment would also seem foolish.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 05:15 pm
Some retail chains such as Target and Wal-Mart in 2005 and 2006 had eliminated the word "Christmas" in their advertising and other promotional materials and both bowed to public pressure and reinstated the word "Christmas'.

Both denied to Snopes that employees not being allowed to wish employees "Merry Christmas" was not official policy of the stores; however, some individual managers apparently did think that was the policy. I was told that by employees of both one of our local Target and one Wal-mart stores--they 'whispered' Merry Christmas to me since they 'couldn't really say it out loud.' I do believe it was not the offiical policy of the organization, however.

Poll: Americans Prefer 'Merry Christmas'
By Mark Impomeni
Nov 26th 2007 10:00PM
Filed Under:Religion, Polls

Rasmussen Reports released a poll today on Americans' attitudes towards holiday greetings in stores. Poll respondents were asked to choose between the traditional "Merry Christmas" greeting and the more modern "Happy Holidays." Sixty-seven percent of respondents preferred to be wished a "Merry Christmas," versus 26% who preferred "Happy Holidays," nearly a three to one margin.

Americans of almost every subset in the poll preferred the traditional Christmas greeting by large margins and with very little variation. Men favored it 69-24%, women 65-27%. Married people favored it 69-24%, unmarried 64-29%. All age groups gave "Merry Christmas" over 60% support and all but the lowest income group did as well; with the three middle income groups giving it over 70%.

The only groups within which significant variation was seen were political identity and race. Republicans favored "Merry Christmas" by 88-10% while their Democratic counterparts favored it less enthusiastically, 57-36%. Third party supporters tracked with Democrats, giving the greeting 57-31% support. Whites were more likely to prefer the greeting than blacks by 72-50%.

The poll also asked respondents whether they planned to attend a Christian church service on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. Overall, 57% of respondents did with senior citizens (66%), women (65%), blacks (63%), and married people (61%), planning to attend church in the highest percentages. Men were the only subset not planning to attend church services in the majority. Still, 49% of men did say that they would attend.

The results will most certainly be trumpeted by various "take back the holidays" movements that seek to buck recent politically correct trends. Several of these groups sell buttons for shoppers to wear with phrases like "It's okay to wish me a Merry Christmas." and "Just Say Merry Christmas!" printed on them.

However, last Christmas season parent companies representing twelve of the nation's top 20 retailers responded to requests for clarification on their official policies regarding seasonal greetings that employees are allowed or encouraged to use in their stores. Most said that "Merry Christmas" was allowed and in some cases encouraged to be used as a seasonal greeting. At the same time most of the retailers sought to point out that they respected the broad diversity of their customer base and welcomed shoppers of all faiths and traditions. These results, while unscientific, tend to belie the belief that there is an organized effort to remove traditional expressions of Christmas from the shopping season.
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/11/26/poll-americans-prefer-merry-christmas/
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 09:26 pm
cyphercat wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
cyphercat wrote:

As a Catlick myself, what is THAT s'posed ta mean, huh? huh?


No offence meant. My tongue in cheek point was that everyone is saying that this group were Christians. The article did not say or imply that other than one girl saying she was Catholic.

I threw in that (what I thought was humorous but was apparently mistaken) line after I realized that I had said that none were identified as Christians. It was part of an edit gone wrong.


Sorry, Intrepid, I shoulda put a wink in there! I was just joking, I certainly didn't think you were serious with your "Catholics are Christians, right?" comment. I was just having fun being a belligerent Catholic. Smile


I forgive you. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 09:29 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Hi Intrepid, Mesquite, everybody else who sent greetings. . . .

I have no problem with department stores who use Happy Holidays. I have a HUGE problems with stores who would refuse to allow their employees to return a cheery "Merry Christmas" to the customers or who make a big deal about making sure that there are no references or symbols of Christmas at all. I look for stores that allow the Salvation Army bellringers and they are the ones most likely to get my business.

The reason we have the celebration at all is because of a figure Christians call the Christ. Christians do not require anybody to believe anything in matters of faith in order to participate in the festival, however. To remove the reference to Christ because it might offend somebody is as ridiculous as eliminating St. Patrick from St. Patrick's Day so as not to offend the non-Irish or those who don't believe in saints.

Next thing you know, we'll be having a "Green Day" parade roughly approximating the celebration named for a non-specific figure from a generic European nation.


Regardless of what Chumly says..... This is an excellent post. IMHO.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 09:31 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The reason we have the celebration at all is because of a figure Christians call the Christ.
False!
JPB wrote:
I do find it humorous that the Christians snagged the holiday from the pagans and are now all huffy that the pagans are snagging it back. Many, if not most, religions have a seasonal celebration of light near the solstice. For Christians to claim dibs on the season is specious.


Sorry but the Christians didn't 'snag' anybody else's holiday. The Pagans went on celebrating Saturnalia or Mithras or any of the other winter holidays occuring during or around the winter solstice and Christians, then and now, had no more problem with that any more than Christians have any problem with Hannukah/Chanukah or any other non-Christian festivals celebrated around that time or any time. Christians adopted December 25 as the official 'feast day' because their converted Pagan members were already accustomed to celebrating at that time of year; but they didn't 'usurp' anybody else's celebration in order to do it.

Christians have never claimed 'dibs' on the season, but it was Christians celebrating their own day that evolved into the major celebration we now have. It wasn't all those other guys. And Christians want to exercise their right to celebrate their own festival/feast day and not be ejected by anti-Christians, some of whom would actually deny all recognition of the Christian festival.


Absolutely!
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 09:36 pm
How "Merry Christmas" is said .....


Afrikaans: Geseënde Kersfees
Afrikander: Een Plesierige Kerfees
African/ Eritrean/ Tigrinja: Rehus-Beal-Ledeats
Albanian:Gezur Krislinjden
Arabic: Milad Majid
Argentine: Feliz Navidad
Armenian: Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Pari Gaghand
Azeri: Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun
Bahasa Malaysia: Selamat Hari Natal
Basque: Zorionak eta Urte Berri On!
Bengali: Shuvo Naba Barsha
Bohemian: Vesele Vanoce
Brazilian: Feliz Natal
Breton: Nedeleg laouen na bloavezh mat
Bulgarian: Tchestita Koleda; Tchestito Rojdestvo Hristovo
Catalan: Bon Nadal i un Bon Any Nou!
Chile: Feliz Navidad
Chinese: (Cantonese) Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun
Chinese: (Mandarin) Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan (Catonese) Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun
Choctaw: Yukpa, Nitak Hollo Chito
Columbia: Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo
Cornish: Nadelik looan na looan blethen noweth
Corsian: Pace e salute
Crazanian: Rot Yikji Dol La Roo
Cree: Mitho Makosi Kesikansi
Croatian: Sretan Bozic
Czech: Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy Rok
Danish: Glædelig Jul
Duri: Christmas-e- Shoma Mobarak
Dutch: Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! or Zalig Kerstfeast
English: Merry Christmas
Eskimo: (inupik) Jutdlime pivdluarit ukiortame pivdluaritlo!
Esperanto: Gajan Kristnaskon
Estonian: Ruumsaid juulup|hi
Ethiopian: (Amharic) Melkin Yelidet Beaal
Faeroese: Gledhilig jol og eydnurikt nyggjar!
Farsi: Cristmas-e-shoma mobarak bashad
Finnish: Hyvaa joulua
Flemish: Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar
French: Joyeux Noel
Frisian: Noflike Krystdagen en in protte Lok en Seine yn it Nije Jier!
Galician: Bo Nada
Gaelic: Nollaig chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ùr!
German: Fröhliche Weihnachten
Greek: Kala Christouyenna!
Haiti: (Creole) Jwaye Nowel or to Jesus Edo Bri'cho o Rish D'Shato Brichto
Hausa: Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara!
Hawaiian: Mele Kalikimaka
Hebrew: Mo'adim Lesimkha. Chena tova
Hindi: Shub Naya Baras
Hausa: Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara!
Hawaian: Mele Kalikimaka ame Hauoli Makahiki Hou!
Hungarian: Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket
Icelandic: Gledileg Jol
Indonesian: Selamat Hari Natal
Iraqi: Idah Saidan Wa Sanah Jadidah
Irish: Nollaig Shona Dhuit, or Nodlaig mhaith chugnat
Iroquois: Ojenyunyat Sungwiyadeson honungradon nagwutut. Ojenyunyat osrasay.
Italian: Buone Feste Natalizie
Japanese: Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto
Jiberish: Mithag Crithagsigathmithags
Korean: Sung Tan Chuk Ha
Lao: souksan van Christmas
Latin: Natale hilare et Annum Faustum!
Latvian: Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!
Lausitzian:Wjesole hody a strowe nowe leto
Lettish: Priecigus Ziemassvetkus
Lithuanian: Linksmu Kaledu
Low Saxon: Heughliche Winachten un 'n moi Nijaar
Macedonian: Sreken Bozhik
Maltese: IL-Milied It-tajjeb
Manx: Nollick ghennal as blein vie noa
Maori: Meri Kirihimete
Marathi: Shub Naya Varsh
Navajo: Merry Keshmish
Norwegian: God Jul, or Gledelig Jul
Occitan: Pulit nadal e bona annado
Papiamento: Bon Pasco
Papua New Guinea: Bikpela hamamas blong dispela Krismas na Nupela yia i go long yu
Pennsylvania German: En frehlicher Grischtdaag un en hallich Nei Yaahr!
Peru: Feliz Navidad y un Venturoso Año Nuevo
Philipines: Maligayan Pasko!
Polish: Wesolych Swiat Bozego Narodzenia or Boze Narodzenie
Portuguese:Feliz Natal
Pushto: Christmas Aao Ne-way Kaal Mo Mobarak Sha
Rapa-Nui (Easter Island): Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi. Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua
Rhetian: Bellas festas da nadal e bun onn
Romanche: (sursilvan dialect): Legreivlas fiastas da Nadal e bien niev onn!
Rumanian: Sarbatori vesele or Craciun fericit
Russian: Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom
Sami: Buorrit Juovllat
Samoan: La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga Fou
Sardinian: Bonu nadale e prosperu annu nou
Serbian: Hristos se rodi
Slovakian: Sretan Bozic or Vesele vianoce
Sami: Buorrit Juovllat
Samoan: La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga Fou
Scots Gaelic: Nollaig chridheil huibh
Serbian: Hristos se rodi.
Singhalese: Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak Vewa
Slovak: Vesele Vianoce. A stastlivy Novy Rok
Slovene: Vesele Bozicne Praznike Srecno Novo Leto or Vesel Bozic in srecno Novo leto
Spanish: Feliz Navidad
Swedish: God Jul and (Och) Ett Gott Nytt År
Tagalog: Maligayamg Pasko. Masaganang Bagong Taon
Tami: Nathar Puthu Varuda Valthukkal
Trukeese: (Micronesian) Neekiriisimas annim oo iyer seefe feyiyeech!
Thai: Sawadee Pee Mai or souksan wan Christmas
Turkish: Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun
Ukrainian: Srozhdestvom Kristovym or Z RIZDVOM HRYSTOVYM
Urdu: Naya Saal Mubarak Ho
Vietnamese: Chuc Mung Giang Sinh
Welsh: Nadolig Llawen
Yoruba: E ku odun, e ku iye'dun!
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:09 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The reason we have the celebration at all is because of a figure Christians call the Christ.
False!
JPB wrote:
I do find it humorous that the Christians snagged the holiday from the pagans and are now all huffy that the pagans are snagging it back. Many, if not most, religions have a seasonal celebration of light near the solstice. For Christians to claim dibs on the season is specious.


Sorry but the Christians didn't 'snag' anybody else's holiday. The Pagans went on celebrating Saturnalia or Mithras or any of the other winter holidays occuring during or around the winter solstice and Christians, then and now, had no more problem with that any more than Christians have any problem with Hannukah/Chanukah or any other non-Christian festivals celebrated around that time or any time. Christians adopted December 25 as the official 'feast day' because their converted Pagan members were already accustomed to celebrating at that time of year; but they didn't 'usurp' anybody else's celebration in order to do it.

Christians have never claimed 'dibs' on the season, but it was Christians celebrating their own day that evolved into the major celebration we now have. It wasn't all those other guys. And Christians want to exercise their right to celebrate their own festival/feast day and not be ejected by anti-Christians, some of whom would actually deny all recognition of the Christian festival.


Absolutely!


Absolutely what?

Foxfire made a claim and then gave support for exactly the opposite.

The holiday is quite hijacked. Don't agree? Too bad, you can't rewrite history. Christians can't either... anymore that is.

This may prove frustrating for some.
K
O
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:10 pm
Where is the damn ignore button when you want it?

At least we can be thankful for those who actually contribute to a thread.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:18 pm
All I can say, the only holiday coming up is Christmas, Hanukkah is over and Kwanzaa not here yet, therefore I will say "Merry Christmas" even if I'm greeted with a "happy holidays". I am celebrating Christmas, basta!!

Yet, I did wish my friends a happy Hanukkah before, and why not! It
was their holiday. I also will wish a happy Kwanzaa to whoever is celebrating
it. What's so difficult now to name each holiday by its name, hm?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:56 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Where is the damn ignore button when you want it?

At least we can be thankful for those who actually contribute to a thread.


Typical. You'd rather ignore a tainted history. I don't blame you. You're trying to protect one of the most important parts of your beliefs. Without them, you'd be in trouble. But don't for a second mistake that you're protecting your religion, not the truth.

All faith's have a tainted past (or present) in some fashion. Modern day Christians who believe that those that exposed to "the word of god," will be compelled to believe it. They would rather not know that part of the early Roman church's methods were to emulate ceremonial elements of other religions to win over followers.

It's not just christmas either.

Look at how Christianity was spread to China. 781AD, the Nestorian Stele (Xi'an Stele) is erected to celebrate the "propogation of the luminous religion (Christianity) in the middle kingdom."

The stele has many scriptures writen on it.

We know Genesis 1:1 to read "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." But on the stele it used taoist terms and language so that it read "In the beginnning God created two principals." The first words of the bible. The beginning! It would seem this would gain the interest of a chinese taoist don't you think. Provide something that they can quickly relate to, and they don't even realized they are in.

Bait and switch.

Also in China, additionally from the Assyrian Church of the East, you find the very non-canon Jesus mantras. Again, these mantras use several eastern philosophies not at all what we would concider Christian.

For a religion which prides itself on giving, a lot of borrowing seems to happen.

T
K
O

P.s. - I am compelled to wonder what Christianity would look like if it had continued to assimulate other philosophies. Perhaps, what we would have had instead is a more diverse philosophy on life etc. But they didn't, they later quit, and just decided what was canon, and what was heresy. Distribute the torches. Rince. Repeat.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 12:00 am
Embarrassed Intrepid...





you said damn.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 11:06 am
CalamityJane wrote:
All I can say, the only holiday coming up is Christmas, Hanukkah is over and Kwanzaa not here yet, therefore I will say "Merry Christmas" even if I'm greeted with a "happy holidays". I am celebrating Christmas, basta!!

Yet, I did wish my friends a happy Hanukkah before, and why not! It
was their holiday. I also will wish a happy Kwanzaa to whoever is celebrating
it. What's so difficult now to name each holiday by its name, hm?


Yes, I wish my Jewish neighbors and colleagues "Happy Hannukah" too as they wish me a Merry Christmas. Last year my daughter sent us a Happy Hannukah card with the message that we could have had at least one Jewish kid. (She always thought it would be great to have a Jewish mother.) I'm not sure if anybody around here celebrates Kwanza or not, but I will certainly think it appropriate to recognize that if they do.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 01:52 pm
I think it appropriate, if not our responsibility, to recognize other celebrations and provide greetings in kind. I find myself wishing I knew what religion or affiliation someone was so I could give an approriate greeting that would be special to them.

I don't think that Merry Christmas should replace their greeting just as I don't think something else should replace Merry Christmas.

Political correctness, in my opinion, should remain in politics and leave the normal people alone. Government has too much say. We little people can work things out ourselves without excessive intervention and political nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 01:53 pm
snood wrote:
Embarrassed Intrepid...





you said damn.


I did.

Merry Christmas, Snood
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:07 pm
Intrepid wrote:
I think it appropriate, if not our responsibility, to recognize other celebrations and provide greetings in kind. I find myself wishing I knew what religion or affiliation someone was so I could give an approriate greeting that would be special to them.

I don't think that Merry Christmas should replace their greeting just as I don't think something else should replace Merry Christmas.

Political correctness, in my opinion, should remain in politics and leave the normal people alone. Government has too much say. We little people can work things out ourselves without excessive intervention and political nonsense.


If I know what their religious persuasion is, I also adjust my greeting out of respect for them. If I don't know I long ago stopped worrying about it. I wish them a cheery and heartfelt Merry Christmas and, though there is no way all the recipients of that have been Christian, I have yet to receive a negative response. I almost always get a smile and an equally friendly response which is usually a Merry Christmas back. The greeting itself is infectious and I believe appropriate for the season no matter who is offering or who is receiving it.

That's the long-winded way of saying I agree with you. Smile
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 06:30 am
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=IAckfn8yiAQ
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 08:44 am
This one does not really further the theme of the thread, but is too much fun to not post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fe11OlMiz8&feature=related
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 11:07 am


Merry Christmas baddog.

That's the very same song that opened this thread. What's your take on it?
0 Replies
 
 

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