Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

cyphercat wrote:

Geez, that story about the kids on the subway is awful... the bit about one of the Jewish people saying "Jesus turned the other cheek," when one of the punky Christian kids spit on him-- wow. Talk about the perfect thing to say...

Intrepid wrote:
I just realized that one girl did say that they were Catholic. Catholics are Christians, right?
As a Catlick myself, what is THAT s'posed ta mean, huh? huh?

No offence meant. My tongue in cheek point was that everyone is saying that this group were Christians. The article did not say or imply that other than one girl saying she was Catholic.

I threw in that (what I thought was humorous but was apparently mistaken) line after I realized that I had said that none were identified as Christians. It was part of an edit gone wrong.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I know that most of you have probably received something like this in your e-mail, but it seems appropriate to put it here:

Hi Foxfyre.
Have you seen this one from Ben Stein?

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees... Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen ' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone '

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

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Intrepid wrote:

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen ' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone'

Profound and insightful? What a bunch of horseshit! I know this isn't the right thread for this (and I agreed with the first half of the post) but this is the most disturbing thing I've read in a long time.

To allow the mismanagement of the Mississippi delta by the Army Corps of Engineers, the lack of planning by the local governments, the lack of follow-through by FEMA, and a complete JACKASS of a US President to be dismissed in favor of propaganda for Ms Graham's agenda makes me ill. How ANYONE could say that what the people of the delta (MILLIONS OF PEOPLE - most of them poor; most of them Christian) faced with Katrina was because God had calmly backed out due to secular demands tells me everything I need to know about that person.

Tell me, Intrepid -- you posted this piece. Do you believe it?

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JPB -- up to the part you quote, it really is Ben Stein's piece. Then it gets a coda, not written or said by Stein, see: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp

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Thanks, jes -- his was the part I agreed with completely. The rest of it is codswallop.

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The minute I see a long thing like that that's been passed around the 'net, I check to see if there's a place where there's a fairly obvious "break" in the "voice" as it shifts to someone else's agenda. I check snopes either way but the change in tone is a major red flag for me.

As for MC vs. HH, people say MC to me and half the time I tell them it's really HC for me (Happy Chanukah) and half the time I just smile and say HH. It really depends on who it is and if I care for them knowing that I'm Jewish. I did the "it's HC for me" thing with a coworker because I expect to work with him for months if not years to come. With my letter carrier, though, I'll just say HH and leave it at that.

I do, though, wonder about the jokes where the only seemingly festive piece is when someone says MC, as if the rest of us are all sourpusses.

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Intrepid wrote:

mesquite wrote:
Perhaps Intrepid was giving a demo of how "real Christians" act.

Merry Christmas, Mesquite.

Do you consider me a real Christian?

If you missed the humour. Or at least the attempt at humour, I am sorry.

What are your thoughts, Mesquite, on Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

yeah, I missed the humor. No need to apologize though as you seem to have missed my attempt at humor also.

As to my thoughts, I think the whole issue is much ado about nothing. The fact that stores elect to use a neutral holiday greeting is a non issue to me. If I were a seriously religious Christian I would hope that I would find more important issues to be concerned with.

What does bother me is being bombarded with "pass it on" e-mails such as the one that you just posted. It seriously troubles me that people see such trash as something worthy of sending on.

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JPB wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen ' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone'

Profound and insightful? What a bunch of horseshit! I know this isn't the right thread for this (and I agreed with the first half of the post) but this is the most disturbing thing I've read in a long time.

To allow the mismanagement of the Mississippi delta by the Army Corps of Engineers, the lack of planning by the local governments, the lack of follow-through by FEMA, and a complete JACKASS of a US President to be dismissed in favor of propaganda for Ms Graham's agenda makes me ill. How ANYONE could say that what the people of the delta (MILLIONS OF PEOPLE - most of them poor; most of them Christian) faced with Katrina was because God had calmly backed out due to secular demands tells me everything I need to know about that person.

Tell me, Intrepid -- you posted this piece. Do you believe it?

I don't believe this part and was rather disturbed by and and was going to remove it. However, had I done so I would be more rightfully criticsized for not posting in whole.

No, I don't believe this.

I did think that the rest of the post was relevant.

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jespah wrote:

The minute I see a long thing like that that's been passed around the 'net, I check to see if there's a place where there's a fairly obvious "break" in the "voice" as it shifts to someone else's agenda. I check snopes either way but the change in tone is a major red flag for me.

As for MC vs. HH, people say MC to me and half the time I tell them it's really HC for me (Happy Chanukah) and half the time I just smile and say HH. It really depends on who it is and if I care for them knowing that I'm Jewish. I did the "it's HC for me" thing with a coworker because I expect to work with him for months if not years to come. With my letter carrier, though, I'll just say HH and leave it at that.

I do, though, wonder about the jokes where the only seemingly festive piece is when someone says MC, as if the rest of us are all sourpusses.

Thanks for clearing up the part which wasn't actually from Ben Stein. My bad because I usually check the validity of such a thing before posting. Someone sent it to me last year and someone else sent it to me this week. I should have researched.

I like it when someone may respond with HC because then I know what they celebrate and I can certainly appreciate and respect that.

In the same token when someone may say HC to me I will respond with either MC or HC and MC.

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mesquite wrote:

What does bother me is being bombarded with "pass it on" e-mails such as the one that you just posted. It seriously troubles me that people see such trash as something worthy of sending on.

I agree with this. I never pass on such e-mails (via e-mail) and advise everyone that I know of the fact that most of these just clog up bandwidth.

Most have to do with bogus virus warnings, attempts to solicit money etc. etc. I did, however, think that what Ben Stein had to say (at least the parts that are actually attributed to him) are pertinent.

As for your comment that Christians should be concerned with more important things. This is the whole essence of what Christians believe in and the reason that they are Christians in the first place. Christians. Christmas.

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All long as I get well-fed, well-sexed, and moderately-boozed I'll say any holiday greeting!

Happy Any Holiday Greetings Everyone!

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Intrepid wrote:

As for your comment that Christians should be concerned with more important things. This is the whole essence of what Christians believe in and the reason that they are Christians in the first place. Christians. Christmas.

Are you saying the fact that stores elect to use a neutral holiday greeting to greet customers of unknown religious beliefs is a problem to you?

What are your feelings about Santa and his elves, Rudolf , Frosty the snowman, songs such as Winter Wonderland etc? There is no Christ reflected in those themes either. Is that problematic?

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mesquite wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
As for your comment that Christians should be concerned with more important things. This is the whole essence of what Christians believe in and the reason that they are Christians in the first place. Christians. Christmas.

Are you saying the fact that stores elect to use a neutral holiday greeting to greet customers of unknown religious beliefs is a problem to you?

What are your feelings about Santa and his elves, Rudolf , Frosty the snowman, songs such as Winter Wonderland etc? There is no Christ reflected in those themes either. Is that problematic?

Um, where did I say anything about stores? I think that I have clearly stated my opinion regarding unknown religious beliefs and my respect of them. You are turning this into a debate where none is required.

You seem to be off topic on your second paragraph. However, I will answer in the spirit of Christmas and Christian kindness.

As long as Santa and his elves, Rudolf, Frosty et al do not replace Christ,l but rather compliment the goodness that he portrays.....I see nothing wrong with it and I, in fact, enjoy Santa and Frosty. Rudolph is my favourite reindeer.

In short.... No it is not problematic to me.

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"Happy holidays" is politically correct crappola.

It is Christmas. Everyone knows that it's christmas and half of the people from other religions go out of their way to partake in the festivities. Christmas is a very popular time of year for a lot of non christians as well as the devoted.

I have no objection nor take offence to others celebrating things like passover, ede, etc. Why the heck should someone think that non christians are offended by christmas.

Utter bollocks as far as I am concerned.

Merry CHRISTMAS, everyone.

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I do find it humorous that the Christians snagged the holiday from the pagans and are now all huffy that the pagans are snagging it back. Many, if not most, religions have a seasonal celebration of light near the solstice. For Christians to claim dibs on the season is specious.

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I don't follow any religion, but wholeheartedly love the christmas festivities, whether it's been nicked from Pagans or not. It's a time for people to be nice to each other for a short while in this hectic world that we now live in.
If people want to find stress during it all, they will. Much better to look up old friends or have a natter on the phone, then go out (or stay at home) and enjoy yourself with family/friends/whoever.

I love it, and if someone wants to get the grumps about whether it's now too commercial, or the true meaning has been lost, they can sod off somewhere else while us others are having a good time.

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Intrepid wrote:

mesquite wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
As for your comment that Christians should be concerned with more important things. This is the whole essence of what Christians believe in and the reason that they are Christians in the first place. Christians. Christmas.

Are you saying the fact that stores elect to use a neutral holiday greeting to greet customers of unknown religious beliefs is a problem to you?

What are your feelings about Santa and his elves, Rudolf , Frosty the snowman, songs such as Winter Wonderland etc? There is no Christ reflected in those themes either. Is that problematic?

Um, where did I say anything about stores? I think that I have clearly stated my opinion regarding unknown religious beliefs and my respect of them. You are turning this into a debate where none is required.

Um it was you was it not that started this thread with a link to a video? In case you missed it the video was about a lady at a coffee shop counter saying "Happy holidays" an then being treated to a rant for her intended good will. Let's recap the lyrics.

Well I went to the coffee shop
To get myself a mocha
The lady at the counter said "Happy holidays"
I said "Thanks lady. I am pretty happy
But there's only one holiday that makes me
feel that way"

And it's called Christmas
What more can I say!
It's about the birth of Christ
And you can't take that away
You can call it something else
But that's not what it will be
It's called Christmas with a capital "C"

God's got a law
And we pretty much destroyed it
We're gonna get judged
There's no way to avoid it
But Jesus came down
To take the punishment for me
He did it for you too
So maybe you can see why

It's called Christmas
What more can I say?
It's about the birth of Christ
And you can't take that away
You can call it something else
But that's not what it will be
It's called Christmas with a capital "C"

So "What do I think of that?" I think it reflects a lot of the in your face proselytizing and whining that shows up in my email box and is an incessant drum beat on conservative radio. I do not think it puts Christians in a good light.

Intrepid wrote:

You seem to be off topic on your second paragraph. However, I will answer in the spirit of Christmas and Christian kindness.

As long as Santa and his elves, Rudolf, Frosty et al do not replace Christ,l but rather compliment the goodness that he portrays.....I see nothing wrong with it and I, in fact, enjoy Santa and Frosty. Rudolph is my favourite reindeer.

In short.... No it is not problematic to me.

I don't see how it can be off topic when it was in direct response to your emphasizing the importance of "Christians Christmas", But it is good to hear that you are not as fanatical as the examples you cite.

For the record I enjoy the season but not the commercialization. My house is decorated inside and out and I enjoy both secular and religious Christmas/holiday music...the above example excepted - catchy tune or no.

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JPB wrote:

I do find it humorous that the Christians snagged the holiday from the pagans and are now all huffy that the pagans are snagging it back. Many, if not most, religions have a seasonal celebration of light near the solstice. For Christians to claim dibs on the season is specious.

Interesting point thanks!

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Here in the northern hemisphere, the light of day grows shorter as we
approach the solistice. And then it slowly lengthens once again. This is
a phenomenon that resonates poetically, religiously, and esthetically.

There are celebrations of light to be found in many cultures, many
religions. No one owns the metaphor, it belongs to us all.

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I think that the actual meaning of 'Merry Christmas' has changed when it should cover more then the night of December 24th to the 25th.

Thus, we used to say in Germany "Happy holidays" (= 'Schoene Feiertage') which covered the two public holidays (1st Christmas Day and Boxing Day) or 'Frohes Fest' (= "Happy celebration"), which is short for 'happy christmas celebration' ... and that covers all three days (includes Christmas Eve).

We used to say ... that is, nowadays "Meryy Christmas" ('Frohe Weihnachten') covers the period from early december until the shops close on Christmas Eve.

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Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

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