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Oz election thread #3 - Rudd's Labour

 
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 04:03 pm
Oooh Laughing

Australians have made a national culture of taking the piss out of everyone and anyone, taking those with swelled heads down a peg or two, all entwined with a healthy dose of cynicism, and (usually) friendly sarcasm.

If an Australian is giving you a hard time, it's usually because they like you.

Our cartoons often reflect that nature.

Of course there are Australians that take themselves way too seriously too.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:07 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
I was specifically thinking of the cartoons. They don't "translate" easily for the casual observer of another country's politics.


Yes, rjb, I often have that same problem when I look at cartoon commentary from around the world (particularly about events I know little about). They can indeed be confusing to an outsider. I used to try to post relevant articles to accompany the cartoons, to try to address this when I could. But this can become pretty time consuming if a lot are posted. And it's hard to know who is actually reading the thread & whether they actually need the added information. The meanings would be pretty clear to most Australians following local political developments, I think.
Please feel free to ask, if you're a bit bamboozled. Most of us here would be more than happy to "interpret" for you, I'm sure. Very Happy

.. & as vikorr said, many Oz cartoons tend to be "taking the piss ..." a lot of the time & might (to an outsider) appear more damning or vicious than is actually intended! (I think, perhaps we have an "authority problem"! :wink: )
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:26 pm
Interesting, this is the second time, in just a few days, that I've found myself attempting to explain Australian political cartoons. In the previous episode I was trying to say that no, the cartoons in question were not intended to be racist, but the poster I was responding to saw them that way. I think there are more "cultural differences" between us than I'd previously realized! Surprised
Do you ever check out the Guardian (UK) political cartoons? I recall posting one to another thread here (on the subject of GWB, someone I'm not exactly crazy about! :wink: ) & worrying if it was too harsh, too vicious, possibly offensive?
Interesting, hey?
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2007 10:57 pm
Quote:
(I think, perhaps we have an "authority problem"! )


SAYS WHO !!!!


Laughing
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2007 10:57 pm
Well, okay...just been wondering why it's so quiet in here Very Happy
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 12:08 am
vikorr wrote:
Quote:
(I think, perhaps we have an "authority problem"! )


SAYS WHO !!!!


Laughing



I sez!!!!

Ya wanna make something of it?

But I mean this in a good way, of course!

I mean ya can't let politicians get too up themselves & start thinking they're important or something, can you? Once they start getting tickets on themselves they've gotta be put back in their place!



Right?


Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 12:19 am
vikorr wrote:
Well, okay...just been wondering why it's so quiet in here Very Happy



It is quiet, isn't it?


Maybe others (like me) are wilting in the extreme heat. (Momma mia, I'm not going out there again today! I burnt my feet during a 10 minute wait for a tram just now! Shocked )

Or it could be because we're all tuckered out after a very busy (political) year?

Or it could be that there's not much in the way of political news at the moment?


What's the story on the results in the upper house? If the votes have already been counted I've totally missed them!
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 01:02 am
Quote:
I mean ya can't let politicians get too up themselves & start thinking they're important or something, can you? Once they start getting tickets on themselves they've gotta be put back in their place!



Right?


Once all peoples understand this, so only then will the world be at peace. Exclamation
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 01:09 am
msolga wrote:
vikorr wrote:
Well, okay...just been wondering why it's so quiet in here Very Happy



It is quiet, isn't it?


Maybe others (like me) are wilting in the extreme heat. (Momma mia, I'm not going out there again today! I burnt my feet during a 10 minute wait for a tram just now! Shocked )

Or it could be because we're all tuckered out after a very busy (political) year?

Or it could be that there's not much in the way of political news at the moment?


What's the story on the results in the upper house? If the votes have already been counted I've totally missed them!





We're expected to THINK at this time of year?



I'm all thunked out.



HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 02:17 am
Too hot for thinking.

Chill out
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bungie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 12:43 pm
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL !!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au/cartoons/new/2008-01-01%20Banks%20count%20in%20New%20Year%20Interest%20rates%20226233.JPG

Nicholson of "The Australian" newspaper: www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 04:54 pm
H aP p Y n Ew Y e Ar !!!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 05:01 pm
vikorr wrote:
H aP p Y n Ew Y e Ar !!!


Indeed.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 07:14 pm
vikorr wrote:
Quote:
I mean ya can't let politicians get too up themselves & start thinking they're important or something, can you? Once they start getting tickets on themselves they've gotta be put back in their place!



Right?


Once all peoples understand this, so only then will the world be at peace. Exclamation




Exactly!

Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 07:17 pm
dadpad wrote:
Too hot for thinking.

Chill out


I tend to think (a lot) all year round!
I have often thought this could be the cause of many of my problems in life! Razz
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 07:24 pm
vikorr wrote:
H aP p Y n Ew Y e Ar !!!


Yes, indeed! Very Happy

Seasons greetings to the usual Oz suspects who regularly contribute to this thread & also to you "others", who pop in from time to time!

May 2008 be a vast improvement on last year! (Things can only get better, yes? .... Yes?)
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 09:43 pm
From this morning's paper. I found this a really interesting read. I hope Kevin read it.:

Labor should look to Britain for lessons from New Labour
Maher Mughrabi
January 1, 2008/the AGE


FOR A Briton living in Australia, the 2007 federal election - the anxiety in the days leading up to the poll, the euphoria in some quarters that followed - stirred many memories of the accession of Tony Blair and "New Labour" a decade earlier.

Of course there are crucial differences. Voting is not mandatory in Britain, and at Westminster MPs are still elected on a first-past-the-post basis. The ALP's majority in Parliament bears no comparison with the 165-seat stranglehold New Labour gained in May 1997. But just as many conservatives in this country see Kevin Rudd's me-tooism as proof of John Howard's ultimate triumph in recasting the political landscape, so annihilated Tories a decade ago consoled themselves with the thought that Blair was far more Thatcher's child than socialism's.

Can Rudd and his team learn anything from the British experience? A number of potential pitfalls can be identified:

- Prime minister or president?: Much has been made of Howard's failure to consult on campaign strategy beyond an inner circle of advisers, such that by the time he asked his parliamentary party "is it me?", it was arguably too late.

In choosing his cabinet, Rudd made a virtue of his refusal to consult Labor's factions, but this places an onus on MPs to ensure that their leader does not get carried away.

It was astonishing to read Blair last June effectively blaming the media for the declining significance of Parliament, when he did so much as prime minister to move the conduct of political business outside Westminster's walls and make policy announcements direct to those same media.

One post-election letter writer to The Age's Green Guide claimed vindication for Rudd's refusal to appear on Jon Faine's 774 radio show. I was uncomfortably reminded of the constant refusal of Blair-era ministers to appear on the BBC's Newsnight program to talk, unscripted, about their policies. Treating the media as a notice board, rather than an opportunity to explain and listen, would be a mistake, as would viewing MPs as a bloc of votes rather than a constituency.

- Dealing with dissent: New Labour's concern with remaining "on message" frequently led it into the most undignified and ham-fisted displays when confronted with internal opposition.

Having watched the Downing Street Goliath squander political capital trying to squash a succession of Davids - Rhodri Morgan in Wales, Dennis Canavan in Scotland and Ken Livingstone in London - only to be forced to accept each of them at the ballot box, one can only hope that Rudd won't let the "co-operate or else" rhetoric boil over in his dealings with the states; it would be too easy for a federal leader to portray state Labor parties as parochial or self-interested.

Rough-and-tumble within politics is one thing, but when this sort of treatment is extended to civilians, it's a real turn-off. The Blair government's role in the events leading up to the death of WMD expert David Kelly nagged at the public's confidence, but it was when Walter Wolfgang - an old man who couldn't be demonised or spun away - was slung out of the 2005 party conference for heckling Jack Straw on Iraq, with security men citing anti-terror legislation, that people's anxiety crystallised; the Coalition experienced something very similar with the late Bernie Banton. Rudd shouldn't think for a moment that this sort of thing can't happen to him.

- Holy mysteries: Much was made of Blair's decision to become a Catholic, yet the media had been aware of this possibility since early 1998. When he was PM, the fuss was over the historical and constitutional implications. Yet this seems to me to miss the point.

During the 1997 election, Blair often preferred priestly purple to Labour red as a campaign backdrop. However, when (in 2003) an interviewer asked whether he prayed with George Bush, the usually voluble prime minister came over quite coy. Now we know that he believes talking about God in Britain gets you labelled "a nutter". If faith did indeed play a pivotal role in Blair's premiership, I think he owed it to the electorate not only to tell them that it did but also how and when.

Rudd has also made much of the part faith has to play in his politics, citing the undoubted guts and principle of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. But simply holding up a paragon isn't enough. If Rudd believes Labor's political decisions should be informed by Christianity, then he too should say when and how, so that (to paraphrase a speech he made at a Canberra book launch in 2006) those views can be argued, distilled and debated through a pluralist political system. Any other course invites the kind of speculation that undermines confidence in politicians.

- The deputy's predicament: Plenty of people were surprised when Julia Gillard was handed responsibility for employment and education.

I remembered Blair's deputy, John Prescott. Like Gillard, he was chosen as deputy to give his boss credibility with the "traditional" left and the unions; like her, after the election victory he was saddled with a colossal portfolio (environment, transport and the regions).

Prescott went from being a darling of his party to the face of government failure - a role Blair usurped only with his decision to invade Iraq. If Gillard wants to keep her prospects intact, she needs to build as many bridges as she can within cabinet and beyond. The one connecting her to Rudd will fail in time.

Maher Mughrabi is a staff journalist.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/labor-should-look-to-new-labour-for-lessons/2008/01/01/1198949797402.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2008 12:34 am
Quote:
In choosing his cabinet, Rudd made a virtue of his refusal to consult Labor's factions, but this places an onus on MPs to ensure that their leader does not get carried away.

Rudd did choose MP's from opposing factions - a good thing.

Quote:
Treating the media as a notice board, rather than an opportunity to explain and listen, would be a mistake, as would viewing MPs as a bloc of votes rather than a constituency.

Rudd did say there would once again be a press interviews after cabinet meetings. That's more promising than Howard. But there's still a long way to go back towards democratic accountability.

Quote:
one can only hope that Rudd won't let the "co-operate or else" rhetoric boil over in his dealings with the states; it would be too easy for a federal leader to portray state Labor parties as parochial or self-interested.

One can only hope Smile

Quote:
Rough-and-tumble within politics is one thing, but when this sort of treatment is extended to civilians, it's a real turn-off.

Yet the regularity of occurence of this escaped the notice of most people

Quote:
If Rudd believes Labor's political decisions should be informed by Christianity, then he too should say when and how,

How does one decide 'when' it would affect ones decisions. As for the how, that would seem (to me) almost as difficult.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2008 06:59 am
Hi vikorr

I found that a very interesting article.

Kevin Rudd's self-appointed "presidential" position in the current version of the Labor Party/government does worry me. Largely because of the Blair experience in the UK. It can work on some issues, I guess, but I don't want any more experiences like the Blair/Bush/Howard decision to invade Iraq. I don't want any one leader to have that sort of power. I wouldn't expect that to be the case in either of the two major Australian political parties, actually.

Quote:During the 1997 election, Blair often preferred priestly purple to Labour red as a campaign backdrop. However, when (in 2003) an interviewer asked whether he prayed with George Bush, the usually voluble prime minister came over quite coy. Now we know that he believes talking about God in Britain gets you labelled "a nutter". If faith did indeed play a pivotal role in Blair's premiership, I think he owed it to the electorate not only to tell them that it did but also how and when.

You said: "How does one decide 'when' it would affect ones decisions. As for the how, that would seem (to me) almost as difficult."

I think it's a reasonable expectation of Labor voters that "traditional labor values" should have considerably more influence on a Labor leader's decision making than his/her particular religious beliefs. Labor's stance on particular issues do change over time, of course, but till now the accepted way to achieve change has been through a long established process of participatory decision making. To have one leader exercise "presidential" power is a complete change to this. And if that leader has particular religious beliefs, then I want to know exactly what they are & how they might impact on policy on a whole range of issues, for example abortion, stem cell research, capital punishment, various "rights" issues, public funding of private (religious) schools, participation in wars, etc. I am not suggesting that Rudd's personal religious beliefs are wrong, I just would have liked to have known a lot more about them before we voted.
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2008 05:02 pm
Just caught up on my readings and I wanted to comment on the wee chat about Oz political cartoons.

It seemed to me, way too many times, during the Howard rain (intentional pun) that the cartoons were the only part of the (largely murdoch-owned) print media that were espousing anything like the truth, the big picture or a humanistic viewpoint. All too often they could juxtapose seemingly unrelated issues in a way that the journos didn't (whether that was because they a) couldn't see it b) didn't think we had the attention span to get it, or c) were being censored/self censored by the politics of their bosses, is unclear).

Most did well (not Zanetti) a few earnt, or confirmed existing, sainthood, like Cathy Wilcox.
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