Oz election thread #3 - Rudd's Labour

hingehead wrote:

I only hope Rudd's Labor labour doesn't lead him down the Blair path.

But early signs are more promising than I'd hoped.

Yes, I've been quietly thinking the same thing - the Rudd/Blair similarities - hinge! Right down to both being "committed Christians"!
Well, if Rudd hasn't learnt a thing or two from "the Blair Experience" in the UK, he's very foolish indeed!

Yep, I'm pleased with some of the early signs, too!

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bungie wrote:

msolga wrote:
Yikes, I've misspelt the title of this thread.

It's meant to say Rudd's Labor! (& it's taken me years to get into the habit of spelling it the wrong way!)

I'll have to ask the moderators to change it, I guess.

It might be an appropriate spelling msolga. The thread will be about Rudd's work ... labour ... so perhaps your mind was on that track ...

Yeah, well I'm going to have to pretend I meant that, bungie, because that's what we're stuck with for 3 years! Laughing

Can't be changed. But not to worry.

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STOP PRESS!: Costello backs Turnbull!

Surprised

Gosh, this sure is weird! Laughing

:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5769973,00.jpg

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The latest from Crikey! ... a sports report!

:wink: :

Dear Squatters,

And now the sporting news, with thanks to A Certain Contributor:

The Old PM's XI :
J Howard c McKew b Hubris 0
P Costello stpd on wkt 0
M Brough c Pantsdown b Swing 0
M Turnbull lbw Pulpmill 12
M Vaile awb Scandal 0
A Downer b Ponce 0
P Ruddock b Disgrace 0
T Abbott c Foot b Mouth 0
B Nelson b Kovko 0
K Andrews b Astard 0
C Pyne b Joke 0
Sundries 1
Total 13

The New PM's XI:
McKew c Huge b Smile 86
K Rudd c Brevity b F-cksake 07
J Gillard Not out 824
P Garrett Not out 0
D Mocracy
W Swan
S Smith
G Combet
N Roxon
M Kelly
B Brown
Sundries 14
Total 941 for 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Another interesting item from today's Crikey!, this time about Malcolm T:

Malcolm Turnbull, up close and political
Greg Barns writes:

From May until November 1999 I spent almost every day with the man who now wants to lead the Liberal Party, Malcolm Turnbull. I was Malcolm's National Campaign Director in the 1999 Republic Referendum.

So what sort of leader is he? Has he got tactical nous - the sort of nose for Opposition politics that requires positive policy development alongside plain old bloody minded negativity?

First, a caveat in my observations. As I said, it was eight years ago. And since that time he has mellowed in my view. He is a little more patient these days with his critics, and with his opponents. Mind you, the monarchist leadership group in the Referendum of David Flint and Kerry Jones would have tested the patience of Job, given their capacity for disinformation and scare tactics.

The one thing that stands out in my memory of the stint I had with Turnbull all those years ago was his indefatigability. This is a man who sends you emails at 3am. He is someone who constantly churns out ideas, strategies and missives to his staff. Turnbull works and works and works and travels, travels and travels for the cause. It does not matter what hour of the day. Just assume that Malcolm will be thinking and working. Of course he does sleep. But he struck me as being in the mould of Margaret Thatcher - requiring little sleep in order to function effectively.

There is in Turnbull also an endearing and genuine sense of egalitarianism that many in the Liberal Party lack. He is an inveterate user of public transport. Instead of taking a cab back to his office up the other end of town, he and I would often jump on a bus at the corner of Park and Elizabeth streets in Sydney, and hop off up at his Goldman Sachs office at the Bent/Phillip street corner. Turnbull engages people in a surprisingly natural way. I saw this at close hand during the fraught months leading up to the November 1999 Referendum. You could take Malcolm to a pub or a shopping centre, and know he wouldn't look or feel awkward.

I have described Turnbull elsewhere as being the "brightest bloke" in the Australian Parliament. He is intellectually brilliant, no two ways about it. (I saw him write a speech in about 30 minutes on his way from Sydney to Brisbane during the campaign - and it was a cracker). He grasps concepts easily and runs with them. This of course means that suffering fools gladly is inherently difficult for him. Having said that, I was often surprised at Turnbull's patience in dealing with the myriad of egos and strong personality types that dominated the upper echelons of the Republic campaign. Turnbull would often vent his spleen privately about X or Y, but publicly the only sound you would hear would be the grinding of the Turnbull teeth.

The question that many ask about Turnbull - and it arose again in the election campaign when he made sure the world knew he wanted Australia to ratify Kyoto but Howard vetoed the idea - is whether or not he is a team player. Is he too much of a lone ranger to lead a beleaguered Liberal Party, out of government everywhere for the first time in its 60 odd year history?

The capacity to win hearts and minds and to capture the confidence of his fellow party members is Turnbull's biggest challenge. Some will argue that the Republic Referendum failed because he could not do that, and that he was just a little too brilliant for his own good. Some of the key advisers to the Republic campaign felt Turnbull wouldn't take advice - that he wasn't a listener.

I don't put myself in that camp. Sure there were times when the collective wisdom of luminaries like now Liberal MP Andrew Robb, former Hawke strategist Peter Baron, pollster Rod Cameron, Neville Wran and the advertising gurus at John Singleton's agency appeared to be ignored, or at least only partially heard by Turnbull during the campaign. But then, can anyone name a political leader of any note around the world who sometimes decides to back his own instinct against that of his advisers.

One thing is certain. If the Liberal Party goes for Turnbull it will be backing someone who is very different from John Howard, Peter Costello, or Brendan Nelson. It will be a roller coaster ride with Malcolm as leader, but then the Liberals have nothing to lose and everything to gain by throwing caution to the wind.

~

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There's a great deal to fix

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/26/rg_spooner_wideweb__470x323,0.jpg

Photo: Spooner

Tim Colebatch
November 27, 2007/the AGE

THERE'S a lovely story, probably untrue, about Nikita Khrushchev's speech to the 22nd congress of the Soviet Union in 1956, when, behind closed doors, he denounced Stalin and unveiled to 5000 shocked delegates a catalogue of Stalin's crimes.

As Khrushchev was detailing Stalin's atrocities, a voice called out: "And what were you doing then, Comrade Khrushchev?"

Khrushchev stopped, put down his speech, and glared intently at the crowd. "Who said that?" he roared. "WHO SAID THAT?"

Five thousand delegates froze in their seats, too frightened to move. The vast hall was filled with a deathly silence of fear. Then Khrushchev relaxed, and spoke again: "That's what I was doing."

In Australia, our leaders don't use show trials, firing squads or salt mines. But they have other means to enforce obedience, and they are used to getting their way without dissent from their followers.

When John Howard introduced WorkChoices in 2005, giving employers control of workplace bargaining, it must have been clear to his MPs that this could cost them their jobs. On this page, I warned: "Make no mistake. What Howard is proposing is the kind of change that costs governments elections, and flings parties into the wilderness Don't Coalition MPs see where this will lead?"

If they did, they were too frightened to say so. Barnaby Joyce raised some doubts, but his small business constituency was onside, so he complied. The rest remained silent as they signed the collective suicide note.

We have built up a mystique of the leader in Australia. Leaders have to pretend that they are infallible. A party has to follow its leader wherever he chooses to go. To demand collective decision-making, to insist that many heads are better than one, is seen by commentators as automatically a bad thing, regardless of the merits of the case.

In the Howard government, all decisions of any consequence were made by the leader. Ministers took the flak Now Kevin Rudd has led Labor to an emphatic victory. It was a personal triumph, in a campaign marked by his extraordinary self-discipline, self-assurance, and competence. Measured against the short-term goal of winning the poll, his policy choices were sound, if unimaginative. Measured against the long-term goal of governing Australia, of course, they were bloody awful, but you can see why opposition leaders can't allow themselves to think that way.

But it was also a campaign run in a presidential style, from the "Kevin07" T-shirts to Rudd's power grab when he announced that he, not the factions, will decide the ministry.

The danger is that he will govern the same way in office, running a presidential administration as Howard did: making the decisions, using ministers as advisers and salesmen, and caucus as a chorus of support for whatever he proposes.

I hope not. ...<cont>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/tim-colebatch/2007/11/26/1196036808890.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

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msolga wrote:

The latest from Crikey! ... a sports report!

:wink: :

Dear Squatters,

And now the sporting news, with thanks to A Certain Contributor:

The Old PM's XI :
J Howard c McKew b Hubris 0
P Costello stpd on wkt 0
M Brough c Pantsdown b Swing 0
M Turnbull lbw Pulpmill 12
M Vaile awb Scandal 0
A Downer b Ponce 0
P Ruddock b Disgrace 0
T Abbott c Foot b Mouth 0
B Nelson b Kovko 0
K Andrews b Astard 0
C Pyne b Joke 0
Sundries 1
Total 13

The New PM's XI:
McKew c Huge b Smile 86
K Rudd c Brevity b F-cksake 07
J Gillard Not out 824
P Garrett Not out 0
D Mocracy
W Swan
S Smith
G Combet
N Roxon
M Kelly
B Brown
Sundries 14
Total 941 for 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is THE funniest thing I've ever seen.

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I recieved in the mail today "The Australian Election Survey" being compiled by Queensland University of technology (QUT), ANU, And University of Queensland (UQ), with the support of the Australian Electoral Commission.

Election issues, Social policy, Party preferences and The campaign are just a few of the issues covered.

We carefully selected and privileged few will diligently complete this survey and drive changes in the way elections are conducted to the benifit of all Australians. (Insert self important Waffle here.)

Under the heading global politics the first question is;

How important do you think the Australian alliance with the United States under the Anzus treaty is for protecting Australia's security?

errrm can I phone a friend?

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Is it multiple choice dad? In multiple choice the answer is almost always B or C...

I loved Colebatch's Kruschev story - I'm gonna have it on my gravestone.

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Rudd has said 'evidence-based policy' a few times. That to me indicates he won't be as dictatorial as you might think. Rather than doing something because they think its right they'll do it because its prove to work. Don't think that will always work but, and sometimes nothing has been proved to work, but pilot programs for new ideas are an option.

He was also talking KPI's and flagposts to. Real public service management speak - not bad at all.

Effectively it he was saying, we will identify problem areas. We will seek solutions. We will have timeline of measurable targets. We will check our performance against these. You will know what our targets and performance are.

He also said he was going to loosen the stranglehold the previous govt had put on FOI.

If it's spin, it's spin I like hearing.

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The Liberal Party appears to be self imploding at the moment, which is never a good thing for the country.

First multiple contenders for the throne, and now many members voices differing views on whether or not they should support Labor abolishing workchoices.

I don't think they did the right thing in Govt with workchoices (among other things), but nor do I want to see them as a divided and ineffectual opposition.

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Don't waste your pity on them Vikorr. They will regroup and will learn some lessons (just as labor did). There will still be senate estimates, they still control the senate. And once again Australia will probably decide 'it's time' - though, flying spaghetti monster willing, it will be for a move to the left.

It will be interesting to see if they block the removal of workchoices. Do they flaunt the plebiscite and get even more retribution, or do they acquiesce and be seen to admit they were wrong? Or maybe they can frame it as 'Howard was wrong'. That Kruschev story still resonates.

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vikorr wrote:

but nor do I want to see them as a divided and ineffectual opposition.

Close your eyes

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Quote:

Don't waste your pity on them Vikorr.

Pity has nothing to do with it - a strong opposition is necessary to effective and accountable government.

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Another good article for outsiders like me on the always interesting openDemocracy site:

Australia's election: ingredients of change

Bonus outrageous detail that didnt make the news abroad:

Quote:

There was another probably unique occurrence during the last week of the campaign, and it also damaged the government. The husbands of the outgoing and new Liberal candidates for a seat in western Sydney were caught distributing forged pamphlets purporting to be from a Muslim group urging a vote for Labor on the grounds of how much the party would support, for example, the terrorists whose bombing in Bali in October 2002 killed around a hundred Australians. A disgusted moderate inside the Liberal Party tipped off the Labor Party, who organised the perfect ambush-by-camera.

While such accusations of forgeries are made sometimes in the heat of partisan conflict, it is possibly unprecedented for the perpetrators to be caught in the act with photographic evidence and eyewitnesses. The prime minister's favourite paper, the Rupert Murdoch-owned Sydney tabloid. the Daily Telegraph, filled its front-page with the dramatic photo and the headline "LIBS BUSTED/Shameful race tactics exposed in key seat". Many felt there was a poetic justice in the way this episode derailed the Liberals' attempts to generate any late momentum.

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Thanks for the link Nimh, an interesting site.

That incident took up quite a few days of the last week of the campaign. The Libs denied any knowledge, despite those involved including the husband of a candidate, the husband of a sitting Member of Parliament, and two other Liberal Party members.

(It does seem likely that it didn't go any higher than the local branch of the party, because it was a pretty juvenile tactic.)

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nimh wrote:

Another good article for outsiders like me on the always interesting openDemocracy site:

Australia's election: ingredients of change

Bonus outrageous detail that didnt make the news abroad:

Quote:
There was another probably unique occurrence during the last week of the campaign, and it also damaged the government. The husbands of the outgoing and new Liberal candidates for a seat in western Sydney were caught distributing forged pamphlets purporting to be from a Muslim group urging a vote for Labor on the grounds of how much the party would support, for example, the terrorists whose bombing in Bali in October 2002 killed around a hundred Australians. A disgusted moderate inside the Liberal Party tipped off the Labor Party, who organised the perfect ambush-by-camera.

While such accusations of forgeries are made sometimes in the heat of partisan conflict, it is possibly unprecedented for the perpetrators to be caught in the act with photographic evidence and eyewitnesses. The prime minister's favourite paper, the Rupert Murdoch-owned Sydney tabloid. the Daily Telegraph, filled its front-page with the dramatic photo and the headline "LIBS BUSTED/Shameful race tactics exposed in key seat". Many felt there was a poetic justice in the way this episode derailed the Liberals' attempts to generate any late momentum.

I hope they do some time.

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hingehead wrote:

Don't waste your pity on them Vikorr.

I hear what Vikorr is saying, but I am with you on this one hingehead.
They should be treated with the same contempt that they had shown
to the wage earners of this country with their "workchice" legislation.
The untruths about the "children overboard"
The untruths about "weapons of mass destruction"
The untruths about the AWB and the food for oil programme.
The list goes on and on ........
They get no sympathy from me ........

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vikorr wrote:

Quote:
Don't waste your pity on them Vikorr.

Pity has nothing to do with it - a strong opposition is necessary to effective and accountable government.

Like the Bungemeister I understand what you're saying but...

A true democracy would rely on the governed to govern the governers. ie It's up to us to call our leaders to account if we don't think the opposition is doing it. Do you know what a hand grenade a ministerial is? Or an open letter to the editor? There are so many ways open to the electorate to put pressure on our leaders (like Getup), all we need is the commitment to pay attention and speak out when we feel something is wrong.

Our little community on A2K is populated with a group of aussies who do care and pay attention, we don't always agree but a least we're thinking.

Consider the ruddslide - it was against an encumbent govt, with control of both houses, a public service slavishly devoted to its ideologies and had cash to burn on advertising - but through all that people voted for a society rather than an economy (thanks Olga).

I guess I'm saying now is not the time to worry - just speak out when you have concerns - you won't be alone. Don't rely on a Liberal opposition.

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hingehead wrote:

vikorr wrote:
Quote:
Don't waste your pity on them Vikorr.

Pity has nothing to do with it - a strong opposition is necessary to effective and accountable government.

Like the Bungemeister I understand what you're saying but...

A true democracy would rely on the governed to govern the governers. ie It's up to us to call our leaders to account if we don't think the opposition is doing it. Do you know what a hand grenade a ministerial is? Or an open letter to the editor? There are so many ways open to the electorate to put pressure on our leaders (like Getup), all we need is the commitment to pay attention and speak out when we feel something is wrong.

Our little community on A2K is populated with a group of aussies who do care and pay attention, we don't always agree but a least we're thinking.

Consider the ruddslide - it was against an encumbent govt, with control of both houses, a public service slavishly devoted to its ideologies and had cash to burn on advertising - but through all that people voted for a society rather than an economy (thanks Olga).

I guess I'm saying now is not the time to worry - just speak out when you have concerns - you won't be alone. Don't rely on a Liberal opposition.

I'm in the middle.

I want them to think very hard about what they did, and feel really bad, and suffer a bit...then I would like a truly good opposition.

Dunno as politics and a good opposition mix these days, though, if they ever did.

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Oz election thread #3 - Rudd's Labour

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