How can you believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old?

Re: How can you believe the earth is less than 10,000 years


Some of what you see on the Earth appears not much older than that. Russel Humphreys' study of helium dissipation from zercons into surrounding mica is pretty hard to argue with.

Nonetheless we have one example of what appears to be a fairly new planet in our system, Venus, and we can see what that looks like and since Earth and Mars don't look like that in any way, shape, or manner, you assume Earth and Mars are older. A few hundred thousand years, or a couple of million possibly; not hundreds of millions or billions.

Thanks, gungasnake, but I think Kicky needs to hear from the folks who teach that the Grand Canyon was formed by Noah's Flood.

link


Joe(whoosh. And there it was.)Nation

The creationists and evolosers are both wrong on that one. Both claim water did it, the only difference being time. The basic claim is wrong, the canyon is basically an electrical arc scar.

Russ Humphries doesnt mention that the dissipation of radiohelium is inequilibrium proportion to the URanium Thorium or HAfnium in zircons, clocks of which are completely reset by any heting episode.(Zirconium doesnt emit helium in a zircon, its the U/Th/Hf-Humphries doesnt present his stuff to his colleagues because he knows hed get laughed off the podium),
Hes a geophysicist not a geochemist or a radiochemist. His expertise is pretty good in discretization of deep seismic data (thats what he was hired at Sandia for) . He shouldnt get into areas that hes totally unarmed.

Im always amazed at how guys like Humphries can be so closed mouthed in the context of their "day jobs" and suddenly open up with scads of verbal poop when they punch out and head for the TEmple of Creationist Crazies.

I asked a question that occurs from a lesson plan from beginning Historical geology. The fulll extent is as follows

1The oldest rocks in a pile are metamorphosed sediments of Grenville age. Overtop these are a gradational coarse to fine layering of sediment that varies from sands on the bottom to limey shales at the top.

2Then these rocks are "hardened" and then are (uplifted)wherein non ductile vfractures occur that infill by remobilized quartz containing Zr from the Grenville.

3These limey shales are then eroded and then tilted, atop this a new layer of (up to 2000 ft) of dark organic shales are emplaced, "hardened" and then folded separately (we know this because the axis of the folds is different from the earlier rock layer and fractures in this layer break through to the limey shales below but their fractures of earlier time, dont pierce the present layer)

4These layers are tilted and then overlain by alternating layers of sandy shales and organic shales that cyclically include coal swamps).

5The coal swamps are then hardened and folded severely which also include earlier quartzes with included zircons and incoming Uranium /Thorium containing sediments

6The coal layers are then eroded and covered with another layer of sediment that was subsequently folded and then eroded.

7 On top of this, the erosion surface of the last sediments had been converted to a soil and show a well developed "pedon" indicating a temperate slimate.
Nothing happens for a few tens of millions of years when

8In the center of this entire section an apparent "tear" occurs which is infilled with sediments of continental nature and shows a basin that varies between 100 down to 10 miles wide(Newark/Gettysburg/Culpepper basin)
Red sediments incorporate soime of the materials from the surrounding earlier sediment layers

9These sediment layers are hardened and tilted and slightly uplifted and eroded

10On top of these are layers of glacial moraine sediments that show at least 4 episodes of separate glaciation. Then these glaciers melt and meltwater carry glacial sediments down into two large drainage basins

This is the "Bumper sticker version of the history of the Central Appalachians (from NY to about Virginia). No big detail .
My question is , How do you get all this sedimentological detritus piling up as evidence in a period that does not involve at lest a few hundred million years? If you can come up with an alternative hydrology and physical world, Im very content to listen. (Im certain that this will be dismissed by RL in a few snotty sentences, or gunga will come up with a derisive comment about my own background, and nothing substantive will be pesented by the Creationist Camp. )

Remember these are data presented to beginning Historical Geology students, so most of these kids arent majors and I didnt delve into the arcania of "why we know these data are correct". I can easily do that but I dont wanna embarrass RL or Gunga's beliefs. I only wnt them to know that theres a huge body of knowledge that gets dismissed by the CReationist choice of using predigested "sound snippets"

I believe that , and this is second hand from the NCSE, that Humphries samples werent even from the correct formation. (HE claimed it ws the Jemez G/diorite and it was froma much later unit). Also he bolloxed up the retention rate equilibria for the ratio of the , amount found compared to the initial state.

I haven't heard this one before. It sounds like a doozie. Do you have a link for it?

ros, gunga is always so fullashit his eyes are brown. He doesnt know of what he purports to understand about the Grand Canyon. My question to the CReationists is , If the Canyon was formed by just a flood, where did all the strata come from that the flood cut through. After all the CAnyon is actually incised, its not deposited.
And as far as what evolosers say, the geological evidence shows a series of depositional, uplift, erosion, and other depositional sequences before the whole plateau was uplifted and then incised by the ancient Colorado River. The geologic Creationist "pamphlet" that the NPS hands out at the park stations are a real embarrassment to anyone coming in from a foreign country and who has even a high school education. Its loaded with factual errors and downright lies that cannot be backed up by any evidence.

Gunga listens to "Coast to Coast AM" and bvelieves it.

Let me give you the gist of it first. The canyon simply does not look like a river bed. Any real river which is very wide like the Volga or Amazon, is shallow; you can wade out in it for a long time before getting to chest level. The canyon is different; you walk up to the edge, and there's just a 2000' straight drop.

Likewise the rocks in river beds are all smooth; the rocks in the canyon are all pristine and sharp and you even see mesas which would have been hundreds of feet under water had the thing ever been a river and even those rocks are pristine, jagged and sharp.

Had water carved the canyon, there would be a stupendous pile of rocks and debris out in the ocean where the Colorado river used to empty; there isn't any.

Likewise the pattern of sinuous rills and the fractal topology which you observe in the canyon; there aren't any rivers with that many mini and microtributaries.

Nonetheless if you run an arc welder spark into solid rock with enough power, you get precisely that kind of fractal topology and sinuous rill pattern.

The canyon is the result of an electrical arc between this planet and something else fairly large. Piles of debris are missing because the material got vaporized and/or blasted straight into space.

One version:
http://www.holoscience.com/views/view_mars.htm

Fractal topography:

Like what? How large would it have to be to create an electrical arc like that?

How do we know it's an arc scar and not just a weapons misfire from a galactic battle cruiser?

he he he ha ha ha haaa. Have you ever been into the Canyon? the eroded banks keep sloughing into the river (its usually quite muddy), but there are plenty of "rounded rocks" Also, the pattern of the canyon is one wherein the plateau was being uplifted while the stream ws incising. We have similar streamtypes in the Appalachians.

Where does the electrical "ARC" story get its legs??
DO you know that the Colrado River, because its so overdeveloped , doesnt even flow into the sea anymore?

PS, how was the Niagara Gorge cut? were aliens involved in that one too?

Galactic battle cruisers typically use plasma based arc weapons, and the plasma fields behave like a fluid which would cause the rocks to be rounded. So no mystery there. And since we have other formations like this elsewhere it simply means that a great battle occurred in our solar system years ago and lots of these formations resulted. It was probably the same aliens who were manipulating the genetic code of pre-hominids to lead to humans.

Gunga probably got his stuff from here.

http://www.holoscience.com/views/view_mars.htm



The papers were so brilliant that science journals wouldn't publish them. Science journals only publish stupid papers.

So I guess the jest is a great big lightning bolt created the Grand Canyon; I think Zeus did it.

It's called Faith. God made the earth appear old so that only true believers could be culled from humanity to sit beside Him for eternity. He is God, afterall. Surely, he could make the earth however he wanted from the get-go. And, He's super smart, so He would know exactly what to do to throw us all off thousands of years later.

It can be pretty scary letting go of beliefs on any subject, not just religion. The science scared the **** out of me in college, but I think I turned out okay. Be patient with the YE'ers, we don't need them all going over the edge at the same time.

Hey, the arc rather than Ark idea is a new one for me. I like the idea of just changing the spelling to explain science.

Silly me, here I was all the time thinking the Grand Canyon was just another volcanic gorge.

damn every thing but the circus
ee cumming

Pffft! Silly you, indeed.

Like, how could a volcano do that?

Maybe it was from the stress of the continents pulling apart. Maybe the West Coast coulda been an island. Maybe it will be in 10 years!

(Ten is equivilent to a thousand, right?)

Are you suggesting that the Grand Canyon could be the result of a massive earthquake?

I swan.

Well as I understand it, our continent tried to pull apart some time back and that's how we got the Mississippi River, not to mention the earthquakes around New Madrid and St. Louis.

Yes, a massive earthquake caused by God.

There ARE homosexuals in that part of the country, ya know.

You mean like Tennessee Williams and Truman Capote.

Capote, yes. But, not Williams. We share a birthday, university, and I was a lil sis for his fraternity... some years later.

So, as long as it touches MY life, no it can't be any part of Gods wrath. That's the way it works, right? :wink: