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BUSH OR GORE: WHO WAS THE BIGGER SUCCESS?

 
 
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 07:58 am
Feats Divide Pair Linked by Election
A Tale of War (Bush) and Peace (Gore)

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 13, 2007; Page A09

MIAMI, Oct. 12 -- Somehow, it seemed only fitting that at the moment of Al Gore's triumph, George W. Bush would spend the day in Florida, scene of the fateful clash that propelled one to the presidency and the other to the Nobel Prize.

What a difference seven years makes. The winner of that struggle went on to capture the White House and to become a wartime leader now heading toward the final year of a struggling presidency. The loser went on to reinvent himself from cautious politician to hero of the activist left now honored as a man of peace.

For the Gore camp, it was a day of resurrection, a day to salve the wounds of history and to write another narrative that they hope will be as enduring as Florida. "We finally have their respective legacies," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus and a veteran of the Clinton-Gore White House. "Bush earned the Iraq war, and Al Gore earned the Nobel Prize. Who knew Al Gore would one day thank the Supreme Court for their judgment?"

The White House stuck to polite, if restrained, congratulations. "Obviously, it's an important recognition, and we're sure the vice president is thrilled," spokesman Tony Fratto told reporters aboard Air Force One heading here Friday. Another senior official, commenting on the condition of anonymity to speak less diplomatically, said the Nobel Prize is nice, but the presidency is still better. "We're happy for him," the aide said, "but suspect he'd trade places before we would."

The paths traveled by these two men in the years since the recount battle of 2000 have taken them in surprising directions. They have both become crusaders in ways that might have been unimaginable during the 35 days they fought over hanging chads and butterfly ballots. Two candidates who presented themselves as safe stewards of a prosperous country have instead become evangelists for changing the world, albeit with drastically different visions.

They have spent those seven years shadowboxing, never reconciling. Gore has been one of Bush's most vociferous critics, while the White House has always looked on the former vice president with derision. Their dispute was implicitly on display, even on Friday. Just half an hour after Gore appeared before cameras to acknowledge the Nobel and to promote the cause of fighting climate change, Bush took the stage here for a speech on free trade -- the yin and yang of the global warming argument, protecting the environment or protecting the economy.

In fact, both men have argued that the world can do both, but they represent opposite sides on which priority to value more highly. In his speech here, Bush made no mention of the environment, instead pressing Congress to pass free trade agreements with Peru, Panama, Colombia and South Korea. "It's important for our country to understand trade yields prosperity, and prosperity means people will more likely be able to find work," he told business leaders.

Still, after investing little capital on global warming, Bush lately has tried to assert a new leadership role. Last month, he convened a conference in a bid to begin laying out a framework for an international pact to follow the 2012 expiration of the Kyoto Protocol, which Gore helped negotiate and which Bush renounced. But Bush offered no concrete proposal of his own.

"For a long time, he was trying to keep a low profile on climate change in hopes that the issue would move on," said Samuel Thernstrom, a former Bush environmental aide. "These days, he's showing more interest. . . . It's puzzling to me, though, that he made the effort to put it on the table but didn't put a proposal on the table that would change the discussion."

White House aides said Gore's Nobel would no more influence Bush on global warming than Jimmy Carter's 2002 prize did on the Iraq war. "I'm sure the president, and many Republicans, roll their eyes about how political the Nobel Peace Prize is becoming," said former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer. "For Al Gore, it's a high honor. But for what's probably a growing group of Americans, the Nobel Peace Prize comes coated with some strong political veneer."

Still, presidents through history have secretly yearned for the validation of the Nobel Peace Prize. The only one to win it in office was Theodore Roosevelt, and his medal remains on display at the White House. Interviewed by al-Arabiya television last week, Bush seemed to rue the idea that he is not seen as a man of peace, bristling when asked if, in fact, he is a "man of war."

"Oh, no, no," he said. "I believe the actions we have taken will make it more likely peace happens. I dream it will be -- the last thing I want to be is a president during war." Referring to his vision for spreading democracy, he said that "peace will succeed as more and more people become free."

Yet, if Bush ever dwells on what might have been, so, too, does the Gore team. "It's hard to look at the disaster of the past seven years and not believe that America would be better off if he had been president," said Ron Klain, Gore's former chief of staff. "Perhaps he has done more for climate change as a private citizen than he could have done as president, but I firmly believe that if Al Gore were president, America would not be at war, our standing in the world would be higher, our economy stronger and our civil liberties more secure."

No one will ever know.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 11:27 am
bush has accomplished far, far more than gore ever will.

the fact that bush's "accomplishments" are all negative doesn't change that. i think jimmy carter got the nobel peace prize as well at one point. next year it'll go to the girl scout that sells the most cookies.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 11:50 am
History truly doesn't reveal its alternatives. However it appears very likely that, had Gore won, and had he submitted the Kyoto Treaty to the Senate for ratification, the treaty would have been soundly rejected (The same Senate voted 99-0 recommending the rejection of the treaty even before Bush rejected it). Finally how would Gore (in a presumed second term) have dealt with the observable fact that the other signatories to this ill-conceived treaty had not lived up to their obligations under it?

Would the economy have achieved such a soft landing and rebound if the Bush tax cust were replaced with the give-away populism Gore advocated during his campaign? From the present perspective it appears clear that it definitely would not. On the matter of excess public spending, there is little good to be said of Bush, but at the same time same time there is no reason to expect that a Gore Administration would have shown any more restraint.

What would Gore have done following 9/11?? Would the pattern of terrorist attacks that started in 1993 (while Gore was Vice President) have continued? What would have then been the character of the debate about the inattention to this problem during the previous nine years?

The point here is that there are numerous new doors opened to historical possibility. The failings of anyone in responsible office will almost always be more evident than those of one who "kept a low profile" during the same period.

No doubt that Gore, currently basking in the acclaim of a politically motivated Nobel prize, looks like the winner, but I strongly suspect that, in his heart, he would have preferred to be President.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 11:54 am
you are right. we cannot say with any certainty that a gore presidency would have been better.

the anecdotal evidence of bush's presidency however strongly suggests that the country would be better off were I the president for god's sake, and I;'m a musician and a dj who has smoked a mountain of dope and snorted two mountains of coke in his life.

bush and his cronies are simply **** that defies definition.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:37 pm
The article failed to mention that Gore won an oscar and two emmies. Also, he created and operates three green businesses, and has made $100 million.

George, there is an excellent chance that 9/11 would not have happened had Gore been in office. Clarke and others have testified that Bush completely ignored warnings that bin-Laden intended to attack, and that it would probably be with hijacked planes. It seems as though Bush wanted to be attacked for some sick reason.

Economists say that Bush tax cuts did little to spur the economy. Gore would have conferred with Robert Rubin and other top economists to come us with valid solutions, which would not have run up the national debt. Bush has increased the national debt 56 percent.

I find it hard to believe that the Senate resolved 99 to 0 that Kyoto should be rejected. Do you have any proof for that statement?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:42 pm
This relates to the Bush legacy.


This week we saw gold climb to over $750 and the stock market reach new, vertiginous highs. The Dow finished the week above the 14k mark again, the S&P rallied into the weekend on the back of stronger than expected PPI and retail numbers and tech stocks launched the NASDAQ over 2,800.

Prima facie, everything should be rosy. But, instead of feeling drunk with celebratory merriment, we feel bloated and sober. It's like we're at a party where the bartender is secretly serving up non-alcoholic Champagne.

Perhaps it's because the dollar, the currency that all of these lofty highs are measured in, is spiraling out of control like a stunt plane with a broken propeller.

No matter which way you cut it, the greenback - and all the currencies around the world that are pegged to it - is bleeding. With every press of the Federal Reserve's inkjet printer, a little more blood oozes from the faces of those dead presidents.

When we drew our first American paycheck, we wrote back to our family in Australia, with the proud news that we were now earning American dollars. The exchange rate back then heavily favored the US dollar. Now, some six years on, the flailing greenback has become our father's best ploy to coax us back to Australian shores.

"That American dollar of yours ain't looking so lustrous these days, huh? 'bout time you returned home to earn some real currency," he jokes.

Many experts predict the Aussie dollar will reach parity with the greenback some time next year. As for the Canadians, they're already there. A cursory glance at the performance of many of the world's leading currencies reveals a string of new highs against the beleaguered buck.
--dailyreckoning.com
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 08:55 am
Gore Derangement Syndrome

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: October 15, 2007
On the day after Al Gore shared the Nobel Peace Prize, The Wall Street Journal's editors couldn't even bring themselves to mention Mr. Gore's name. Instead, they devoted their editorial to a long list of people they thought deserved the prize more.

Go to Columnist Page ยป Blog: The Conscience of a Liberal And at National Review Online, Iain Murray suggested that the prize should have been shared with "that well-known peace campaigner Osama bin Laden, who implicitly endorsed Gore's stance." You see, bin Laden once said something about climate change ?- therefore, anyone who talks about climate change is a friend of the terrorists.

What is it about Mr. Gore that drives right-wingers insane?

Partly it's a reaction to what happened in 2000, when the American people chose Mr. Gore but his opponent somehow ended up in the White House. Both the personality cult the right tried to build around President Bush and the often hysterical denigration of Mr. Gore were, I believe, largely motivated by the desire to expunge the stain of illegitimacy from the Bush administration.

And now that Mr. Bush has proved himself utterly the wrong man for the job ?- to be, in fact, the best president Al Qaeda's recruiters could have hoped for ?- the symptoms of Gore derangement syndrome have grown even more extreme.

The worst thing about Mr. Gore, from the conservative point of view, is that he keeps being right. In 1992, George H. W. Bush mocked him as the "ozone man," but three years later the scientists who discovered the threat to the ozone layer won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. In 2002 he warned that if we invaded Iraq, "the resulting chaos could easily pose a far greater danger to the United States than we presently face from Saddam." And so it has proved.

But Gore hatred is more than personal. When National Review decided to name its anti-environmental blog Planet Gore, it was trying to discredit the message as well as the messenger. For the truth Mr. Gore has been telling about how human activities are changing the climate isn't just inconvenient. For conservatives, it's deeply threatening.

Consider the policy implications of taking climate change seriously.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals," said F.D.R. "We know now that it is bad economics." These words apply perfectly to climate change. It's in the interest of most people (and especially their descendants) that somebody do something to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, but each individual would like that somebody to be somebody else. Leave it up to the free market, and in a few generations Florida will be underwater.

The solution to such conflicts between self-interest and the common good is to provide individuals with an incentive to do the right thing. In this case, people have to be given a reason to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions, either by requiring that they pay a tax on emissions or by requiring that they buy emission permits, which has pretty much the same effects as an emissions tax. We know that such policies work: the U.S. "cap and trade" system of emission permits on sulfur dioxide has been highly successful at reducing acid rain.

Climate change is, however, harder to deal with than acid rain, because the causes are global. The sulfuric acid in America's lakes mainly comes from coal burned in U.S. power plants, but the carbon dioxide in America's air comes from coal and oil burned around the planet ?- and a ton of coal burned in China has the same effect on the future climate as a ton of coal burned here. So dealing with climate change not only requires new taxes or their equivalent; it also requires international negotiations in which the United States will have to give as well as get.

Everything I've just said should be uncontroversial ?- but imagine the reception a Republican candidate for president would receive if he acknowledged these truths at the next debate. Today, being a good Republican means believing that taxes should always be cut, never raised. It also means believing that we should bomb and bully foreigners, not negotiate with them.

So if science says that we have a big problem that can't be solved with tax cuts or bombs ?- well, the science must be rejected, and the scientists must be slimed. For example, Investor's Business Daily recently declared that the prominence of James Hansen, the NASA researcher who first made climate change a national issue two decades ago, is actually due to the nefarious schemes of ?- who else? ?- George Soros.

Which brings us to the biggest reason the right hates Mr. Gore: in his case the smear campaign has failed. He's taken everything they could throw at him, and emerged more respected, and more credible, than ever. And it drives them crazy.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 09:04 am
Advocate wrote:
Which brings us to the biggest reason the right hates Mr. Gore: in his case the smear campaign has failed. He's taken everything they could throw at him, and emerged more respected, and more credible, than ever. And it drives them crazy.


that isn't a drive, more like a brief stroll.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 09:11 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
bush has accomplished far, far more than gore ever will.

the fact that bush's "accomplishments" are all negative doesn't change that. i think jimmy carter got the nobel peace prize as well at one point. next year it'll go to the girl scout that sells the most cookies.


I agree 100%.... however, evil has a shorter half life and life is a marathon, not a sprint. bush is a sprinter.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 09:39 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
vil has a shorter half life and life is a marathon, not a sprint. bush is a sprinter.


not to wholly disagree, that's just so optimistic of you Smile i hope you're right, of course. either way it was worth repeating.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 09:40 am
I mean by that particular evil. When one evil entities short half life comes to an end there are new ones in the bullpen ready to pitch.

So I don't sound optimistic and ruin my reputation. :wink:
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 09:42 am
okay, i feel better now- at least in the short run Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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