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Turkey to invade Iraq?

 
 
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 11:51 am
Quote:
Turkey could enter N.Iraq after rebels: PM office
Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:15am EDT

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan gave the go-ahead on Tuesday for all necessary measures to be taken against Kurdish rebels, including a possible incursion into northern Iraq where many are hiding.

The decision follows a series of rebel attacks on security forces which have claimed the lives of 15 soldiers since Sunday. But parliament would still have to authorize any full-scale cross-border operation, a move analysts say is still unlikely.

"To put an end to the terrorist organization operating in the neighboring country (Iraq), the order has been given to take every kind of measure, legal, economic, political, including also a cross-border operation if necessary," Erdogan's office said in a statement after a meeting of senior officials.

"Orders have been given to all relevant institutions to continue to wage a decisive struggle against terrorism and the terrorists."

The latest attacks have increased pressure on Erdogan's centre-right government to take tough action against the rebels of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), about 3,000 of which are believed to be hiding in mainly Kurdish northern Iraq.

But Ankara remains under heavy pressure from its NATO ally the United States not to send troops into northern Iraq, the only relatively stable part of that country.

Turkey's parliament would have to authorize any large-scale military operation into Iraq, but troops could pursue rebels over the border in smaller, so-called "hot pursuit" operations without such authorization.

Ankara has long claimed the right to stage such limited operations under international law as legitimate self-defense.

On Sunday, rebels shot dead 13 troops in Sirnak province near the Iraqi border in the worst single attack in 12 years. Two other soldiers were killed in PKK landmine explosions.

Ankara blames the PKK for the deaths of more than 30,000 people since the group began its armed campaign for an ethnic homeland in southeast Turkey in 1984.


Reuters

Not a done deal yet, but every step necessary to green-light the invasion of northern Iraq by Turkey is being taken, one by one.

It's hard to blame them, considering the fact that US-envisioned maps of a partitioned Iraq inevitably contain large portions of what we now refer to as Turkey, in the new Kurdish area.

How will the US react to this? This is a NATO ally of ours undergoing terrorism which is clearly based in the Kurdish area, an area we desperately want to keep violence-free. So, do we defend our allies in Iraq or our allies in Turkey?

Cycloptichorn
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Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 12:31 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
do we defend our allies in Iraq or our allies in Turkey?


G.W.Bush wrote:
Let me make a quick call to Israel and speak to Mr Ehud Olmert to find out what we should do next. I must say, this is indeed very worrying...
-- Official White House Source

Mr Bush had already fulfilled Israel's earlier demands. He has promised to continue obeying.

Quote:
ATTACK IRAN THE DAY IRAQ WAR ENDS, DEMANDS ISRAEL From Stephen Farrell, Robert Thomson and Danielle Haas

[The Times of London, UK, 5 November:] ISRAEL'S Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called on the international community to target Iran as soon as the imminent conflict with Iraq is complete.
0 Replies
 
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 12:51 pm
Hi Zippo
You are funny Laughing
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 03:02 pm
Turkey should try to help the (so called )NATO members to invade Iraq and chase out all the criminal invaders .
Let me appeal to the powers that be in Turkey.
Please sweep the street of Iraq and help the victims.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 06:20 pm
With the Yankees out of the playoffs, I'm trying to figure out whether Turkey is American League and the Kurds are National League or vice versa?

Regardless, with these new players in the Iraq opera, I'm thinking I will need more patience to see the conclusion. I thought it could end with a new administration after the elections. Now, it could spiral out of control with new foreign elements.

But, since Turkey was the "seat" of the Ottoman Empire prior to WWI, it would be interesting to see her back in her old turf, almost 100 years later. Very interesting.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 06:30 am
Quote:
SIRNAK, Turkey - Turkey is shelling suspected Kurdish rebel camps across the border in northern Iraq, a newspaper reported Wednesday, but the government appeared unlikely to move toward sending ground troops until next week.

A member of the governing Justice and Development Party said a request for parliamentary approval for a cross-border ground offensive was unlikely to come to the floor before the end of a four-day religious holiday on Sunday. He asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that preparations for the parliamentary authorization were under way but he did not say when a motion could reach the floor.

A large-scale military incursion would disrupt one of the few relatively peaceful areas of Iraq and jeopardize Turkey's ties with the United States, which has urged Ankara not to take unilateral steps.

The Turkish military launched a major offensive on its side of the border this week in response to more than a week of deadly attacks in southeastern Turkey by the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.

Turkish troops targeting the guerrillas' suspected escape routes in mountainous areas in Sirnak province have "squeezed" a group of about 80 rebels on Mt. Gabar, in Sirnak, the Hurriyet newspaper reported. Escape routes were being bombed by helicopter gunships while transport helicopters were airlifting special commando units to strategic points.

Turkish troops were also shelling suspected PKK camps in the regions of Kanimasa, Nazdur and Sinath, in northern Iraq, from positions in Turkey's Hakkari province, just across the border, Hurriyet reported. Tanks were positioned near the town of Silopi, in Sirnak province, the paper said.

The paper said the government would impose an information blackout on its preparations for a possible cross-border offensive.

In the event that parliament gives its approval, the military could choose to immediately launch an operation or wait to see if the United States and its allies, jolted by the Turkish action, decide to crack down on the rebels.

Turkey conducted two dozen large-scale incursions into Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The last such operation, in 1997, involved tens of thousands of troops and government-paid village guards.

Other punitive measure at Turkey's disposal including cutting electricity supplies and closing the border with Iraq.


source

The way I see it they are entirely within their rights, as long as they keep it contained to catching the rebels, to defend themselves against the Iraqi rebels who have been attacking them. The US nor the Kurds haven't done anything to stop them.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:18 pm
"Turkey's readiness to allow Iranian gas to pass through its territory is only one aspect of its long-term commitment towards Tehran's energy sector. Turkey, which has decided to invest heavily in the South Pars gas field, declared recently that it would be ready to raise the required $3.5 billion for the project entirely on its own. While $2 billion will be used to establish a new pipeline, the rest will be spent on the development of South Pars.

This statement by the Turkish Energy Ministry came after foreign banks indicated their reluctance to finance the project. Arranging funds for large projects in Iran's oil and gas sector is not easy. The Iran Sanctions Act of the United States bars foreign investments above $20 million in Iran's hydrocarbons sector. Consequently, the Americans can boycott any company found violating this law. By committing itself to fund its stake in South Pars, the state-owned Turkish Petroleum Company (TPAO) could find itself on the firing line once the project materialises.

Iran has been pleased with Turkey's resolve to develop South Pars as it has high stakes in its development. Tehran hopes to transfer South Pars gas to Europe and Asia. While the Nabucco system will eventually carry gas to Europe, Tehran hopes that the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, which also originates in South Pars, will become one of its chief gateways for exporting gas to Asia.

U.S. exhortations


Turkey's resolve to go ahead with its investments in Iran has major political implications. It shows that on energy, Ankara has decided to confront Washington. Many public statements have come from Washington, seeking to dissuade Turkey from engaging with Iran in the energy sector. Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is not impressed by the U.S. exhortations. On more than one occasion he has declared Turkey's intention to safeguard its core energy ties with Iran and Russia.

There have been other agreements among a string of countries that are wedged contiguously between the Mediterranean Sea and the Persian Gulf. For instance, Syria, Turkey, and Egypt are considering a trilateral arrangement, under which Egyptian gas will transit through Syria before reaching Turkey. This agreement is part of the development of the Arab gas pipeline system. Egyptian gas will reach Syria through Jordan before entering Turkey. Another upcoming project that has drawn considerable international attention involves Syria, Iran, and Venezuela ?- Iran's key Latin American ally. The three countries plan to establish in Syria an oil refinery with a daily output of 140,000 barrels.

While the Americans debate plans to restore order in Iraq and consider military action against Iran, Tehran, Damascus, and Ankara are making their own decisions in the energy sector. These decisions, once implemented, are likely to have significant political implications. By deepening their interdependence in the energy sector, they are working towards establishing a semi-independent zone of stability close to West Asia's borders with Europe.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/13/stories/2007101356911500.htm
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:21 pm
certainly helps drive home, to anyone with a brain, how stupid our invasion and the people who masterminded it are....
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:41 pm
Bi-Polar of course you are correct. Here is a piece to vouchsafe your views.

"Turks are angry for being branded a nation that has undertaken an act of genocide. Beyond that, they are angry that this has been effectively carried through in the U.S. by the Armenian Diaspora, and that all of our efforts to stop this initiative have failed miserably.



Beyond that, Turks already have an array of reasons to be angry with the United States. They hold U.S. is responsible for the continued presence in the mountains of North Iraq - despite repeated Turkish warnings - of the Kurdistan Workers Party [PKK ]. They feel that the U.S. has created such a mess in Iraq that Turkish interests have been directly damaged. They also believe that American policies in the Middle East have been counterproductive and have worsened the plight of the Palestinians. What's more, they perceive that U.S. efforts to fight terrorism from Afghanistan to Europe are getting nowhere.



Turks have always served the United States as loyal and trusted allies. Whenever help was needed - from Korea to Somalia and from the Balkans to Afghanistan - Turkey has always been there.



Turks even blame the U.S. for their mounting casualties at the hands of PKK terrorists [in north Iraq]. Street protests highlight this. A banner carried by students at Istanbul University on Wednesday read, "America is the Murderer of Mehmetcik" (nickname for Turkish soldiers). And that was before the U.S. House Foreign Relations Committee voted to approve a resolution agreeing that Turks had committed an act of genocide against Armenians.

http://www.watchingamerica.com/thenewanatolian000008.shtml
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 12:03 pm
Turkey Takes Step Toward Iraq Operation
Turkey Takes Step Toward Iraq Operation
by SELCAN HACAOGLU
October 15, 2007

ANKARA, Turkey ?- The Turkish government will seek parliamentary approval for a military operation against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq, a government spokesman said Monday, taking action on one of two major issues straining relations with Washington.

The spokesman, Cemil Cicek, said he hoped Parliament would vote on the motion this week _ passage is considered likely _ but indicated that the government would still prefer a solution to the conflict that does not involve a cross-border offensive.

"Our hope is that there will be no need to use this motion," Cicek said.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government twice acquired similar authorizations from the Parliament in 2003, but did not act on them.

Cicek insisted the only target was the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party, known as the PKK.

"We have always respected the sovereignty of Iraq, which is a friendly and brotherly country to us," Cicek said. "But the reality that everyone knows is that this terrorist organization, which has bases in the north of Iraq, is attacking the territorial integrity of Turkey and its citizens."

The statement appeared to be aimed at reassuring Iraq's central government as well as Iraqi Kurds, who run their own administration in northern Iraq.

Fighting along the border with Iraq was reported over the weekend, where Turkey's military said it "responded heavily" to attacks from northern Iraq by Kurdish fighters on Friday. Iraqi Kurds reported that Turkish artillery hit their territory.

Senior rebel commander Duran Kalkan said the Turkish military would suffer a serious blow if it launches a cross-border offensive, saying it would "be bogged down in a quagmire," the pro-Kurdish Firat news agency reported Monday.

Oil prices rose Monday, partly reflecting concerns over a conflict that could open up a new front in the Iraq war. Light, sweet crude for November delivery hit a new high of $85.19 a barrel before retreating in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, midafternoon in Europe.

Cabinet ministers also were expected to debate retaliatory measures if the U.S. Congress passes a resolution that labels the World War I-era killings of Armenians as genocide.

A U.S. House panel approved the resolution last week, infuriating Turkish leaders who said ties with their NATO ally would suffer.

At issue in the resolution is the killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks. Many international historians contend the World War I-era deaths amounted to genocide, but Turkey says the mass killings and deportations were not systematic and that many Turkish Muslims died in the chaos of war.

Turkish anger over the genocide resolution has led to commentary that Turkey would be less likely to take into account U.S. opposition to a unilateral Turkish action in Iraq, which could destabilize a relatively peaceful part of the country.

Turkey's top general warned over the weekend that military ties between Turkey and the United States could be seriously damaged if the genocide resolution passes Congress.

Tony Fratto, a White House spokesman, said President Bush had no plans to intervene in the vote, although the administration has been lobbying intensely to persuade lawmakers to reject the resolution.

"There should be no question of the president's views on this issue and the damage that this resolution could do to U.S. foreign policy interests," Fratto told reporters Monday aboard Air Force One.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said she will schedule a vote soon on the resolution.

Fratto said the White House does not want Pelosi to bring it to the floor; should it come to a vote, he said, "We will strongly encourage members not to support it."

Turkey, a major cargo hub for U.S. forces in Iraq, has recalled its ambassador to Washington for consultations and warned that there might be a cut in logistical support to the United States.

About 70 percent of U.S. air cargo headed for Iraq goes through Turkey, as does about one-third of the fuel used by the U.S. military there. U.S. bases also get water and other supplies carried in by Turkish truckers who cross into Iraq's northern Kurdish region.

In 1975, Washington imposed an arms embargo that lasted three years against Ankara following its invasion of Cyprus, using U.S. weapons. Turkey, a Cold War ally of the United States, responded by limiting U.S. military and intelligence activities on its soil.

Turkey has urged the United States and Iraq to crack down on PKK rebels who have been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey since 1984.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 09:42 pm
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread..." Ricky Nelson song.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2007 07:37 am
They have hardly rushed since they have been attacked by PKK since even before the invasion.

Turkey votes on incursion, Iraq scrambles to head off threat
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2007 09:49 am
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/17/turkey.iraq/index.html

Quote:
Turkey approves Iraq incursion

* Story Highlights
* Turkey's Parliament approves military action on Kurdish separatists
* Move comes despite international calls for restraint
* Bush: "We don't think it is in their interests to send troops into Iraq"
* Turkey says PKK separatists are launching attacks from Iraqi Kurdistan

(CNN) -- The Turkish parliament has voted to allow its military to make an incursion into Iraq and chase down Kurdish rebels staging cross-border attacks.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government had asked parliament in Ankara on Monday to authorize a military incursion, and the lawmakers responded with overwhelming approval, 507 to 19.

Parliamentary approval, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said before the debate, would not necessarily trigger immediate military action and many analysts doubt a full-scale invasion will be launched.

Turkey has already massed 60,000 troops in the region and over the weekend it shelled farms across the border.

But the chances of such military action raises great concerns in the United States, which fears it would undermine the stability of the American-backed government in Baghdad and jeopardize the supply lines that support U.S. troops in Iraq.

And it heightens anxiety in Iraq, where officials have been taking all-out diplomatic efforts to keep Turkey from carrying out cross-border assaults against Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, rebels in northern Iraq.

Speaking as news of the vote was announced, U.S. President George W. Bush -- who said there already are Turkish troops stationed in Iraq -- said "we are making it very clear to Turkey that we don't think it is in their interests to send troops into Iraq."

He noted that Iraq considers the issue sensitive. Saying Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi traveled to Ankara to discuss the issue with Turkish officials, he said the diplomatic discussions on the issue are positive.

"There's a better way to deal with the issue than having the Turks send massive troops into the country," said Bush.

Meanwhile, Barhim Salih, Iraq's deputy prime minister, who is Kurdish, told CNN that Iraqis believe the "prospect of unilateral action will mean irreparable damage to bilateral relations, and will be a bad consequence to Iraq, bad consequence to Turkey, bad consequence to the region."

Salih said before Wednesday's parliamentary vote in Turkey that such a move would also set a grim precedent.

"If Turkey were to give itself the right to interfere in Iraq militarily, what is there to stop other neighbors from doing so?"

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has called for a series of steps to tackle the dispute, including the dispatching of top-level political and security delegation to Turkey.

Al-Maliki phoned Erdogan on Wednesday and reassured him that Iraq has banned PKK terror activities, his office said.

The office said Erdogan expressed his desire for good relations with Iraq and stressed Turkey's determination to cooperate with the government to deal with the PKK and welcomed negotiations and talks on the issue.

Cross-border trade

In an agreement signed in late September, Iraq agreed to crack down on the PKK, which the U.S. and the European Union consider a terrorist organization.

Iraqi army has no plan to deploy its soldiers near the rugged Turkish-Iraqi border to take on the Kurdish rebels targeting Turkey, and Iraqi authorities are satisfied with the efforts by the Iraqi Kurdish regional authorities to deal with the militants there, a top Iraqi military official told CNN Wednesday.

"It's a mountainous area, difficult terrain and our troops are not trained for that," said Lt. Gen. Nasier Abadi, Iraqi Armed Forces deputy chief of staff.

But Abadi said it was in the interest of the Kurdish Regional Government to deal with the Kurdish rebel problem because of its economic relationship with Turkey.

"They can't afford the PKK to spoil it," he said.

Abadi underscored the importance of cross-border trade, saying that the Kurdish region lost $1 million a day in trade when the Iraq-Iran border was closed during the recent Ramadan holiday.

Iran closed border points in the Kurdish region to protest an arrest of a man the U.S. military called a member of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps-Quds Force, a point disputed by Iran.

Abadi added that the Turkish military in the past has conducted a series of hot-pursuit-style raids over the vast and mountainous border into northern Iraq in recent years and it didn't find a single Kurdish rebel.

He said most PKK rebels are believed to be in southern Turkey, Syria and Iran.

"They are very good at hiding; it's guerrilla warfare up there," Abadi said.

Armenian issue

The United States has been attempting to use its influence to keep Turkey from launching an incursion but a U.S. domestic political dispute involving the mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire around 90 years ago has enflamed passions in Turkey and presented challenges for American diplomacy.

Ties between the NATO allies are strained over a symbolic measure making its way through Congress that would declare the Ottoman-era killings of Armenians "genocide."

Bush on Wednesday urged Congress to drop the House resolution. "One thing Congress should not be doing is sorting out the historical record of the Ottoman Empire. The resolution on the mass killings of Armenians beginning in 1915 is counterproductive," Bush told reporters.

Two senior U.S. military officials told CNN that commanders in Europe have been told to be "prepared to execute" alternatives to using Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey if Turkey follows through on threats to restrict U.S. use of the base in retaliation for the resolution, which a House of Representatives committee approved last week.

Lt. Gen. Carter Ham, the director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Tuesday that Pentagon planners are looking at "a broad range of options" to keep food, fuel and ammunition flowing to U.S. troops in Iraq if Turkey pulls the plug on Incirlik.

"We're confident that we'll find ways to do that," Ham told reporters at the Pentagon. "There's likely to be some increased cost and some other implications for that, and obviously we'd prefer to maintain the access that we have."

The move is a preliminary step to ensure that alternative aircrews, planes, fuel and routes are lined up and that troops in Iraq will see minimal interruption in their supply lines, the senior officials told CNN.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2007 10:04 am
Terrorism is, of course, evil and no solution.

But the problem of Kurdistan will not go away even with Turkish
"incursions" into Iraq.

The Kurds in the portion of Kurdistan within Turkey will continue to resist
cultural assimilation by the Turks. Many (most?) of the Kurds in the
portion of Kurdistan within Iraq will continue to shelter those who resist.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2007 08:19 pm
I didn't mean the Turks but Darth War_dodger for creating a favorable environment for Kurds to gain petro wealth and ambitions for a greater Kurdistan.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 10:38 am
Memo to the Media: Talking Turkey and The Kurds
Memo to the Media: Talking Turkey and The Kurds
By Suzanne Rosenberg
February 23, 2008

It has been difficult for the press to keep up with all the political, military, and civilian gains and setbacks in Iraq, but now a new "front" has emerged with the Turkish "invasion" in the north.

It has been difficult for the press to keep up with all the political, military, and civilian gains and setbacks in Iraq, but now a new "front" has emerged. One of the unintended and disastrous consequences of the U.S. attack on Iraq is the current Turkish "invasion" of northern Iraq. At latest count some ten thousand troops are suspected of moving into the north of Iraq, ostensibly to deter members of the guerrilla group, the PKK or Kurdish Worker's Party.

Here is a kind of primer for journalists just coming to this issue.

Currying favor with the Turks for fly-by missions and other overland access to Iraq during the war has no doubt emboldened the Turkish leadership to act more aggressively regarding their own internal issues with its Kurdish minority, especially in the south. This has led to increased tensions on the border of southern Turkey and within Kurdish northern Iraq.

Independent institutions, political autonomy and economic development were often pointed to as the strengths of this unusual region of Iraq,before the war: an anomalous oasis of calm with budding democratic and free market institutions in Iraq and often in all of the Arab Middle East.

We convinced the Kurds of Iraq's north not to attempt cessation and independence in the days leading up to and right after the U.S. invasion, and assured them of our intentions to assist them should they need to guard their autonomy against any possible Turkish intentions. But it now appears that Turkish intentions are unclear.

While there is no excuse for the often violent and hostile acts of the PKK, a threatened autonomous Kurdistan might be expected to produce some such activity at least in the short run. Turkey's response to these changes and challenges confronting the Kurdish North and its own country is clearly quite heavyhanded and might better be achieved through diplomatic initiatives as opposed to military means.

And it might be pointed out, that this military method against a minority group has served Turkey ill in its past. If Turkey truly intends to live peaceably alongside any sort of relatively autonomous Kurdish region on its southern border, diplomacy rather than military action will reassure those within the region and outside of it.

Most tragically, Northern Iraq's Kurds find their autonomy, independence and "democratic development" increasingly threatened. It has been compromised by the war and political and military developments in the south. The violence of the south is slowly finding its way to the north, with increasing corruption, tribal enmity, and encroaching terrorist activity. The north has been sacrificed to the volatile Iraqi political mix playing out for oil resource wealth and political power.

So, unfortunately, northern Iraqi Kurds find themselves in a potentially very dangerous and volatile "squeeze play" brought on by the power plays of the Turks in the North, the seemingly unending chronic dispute between Shia and Sunni Iraqis in the South -- and the continued confounding occupation of Iraq by the United States.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suzanne Rosenberg ([email protected]) is a political scientists and freelance writer in Teaneck, N.J. She has written often for E&P on Middle East issues and the media.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 10:44 am
Turkish helicopter goes down at Iraq border
Turkish helicopter goes down at Iraq border
Turkey: 8 more soldiers killed in cross-border operation, bringing toll to 15
MSNBC News Services
2/24/08

CUKURCA, Turkey - Turkey's military said Sunday that one of its helicopters went down on the Turkish-Iraqi border and that eight more soldiers were killed in combat during its cross-border ground operation in northern Iraq.

It was not clear if the eight were on board the helicopter.

Kurdish rebels said earlier that they shot down a Turkish military helicopter near the Turkish border.

The new deaths bring the announced Turkish military toll to 15.

Baghdad and Washington fear the conflict between Turkish forces and Kurdish rebels could further destabilize Iraq.

Ankara launched the major cross-border land offensive on Thursday after months of aerial bombardment of PKK targets in the remote, mountainous region. It accuses the rebels of using northern Iraq as a base to stage deadly attacks inside Turkey.

"At 6 p.m. (11 a.m. ET) yesterday, our fighters shot down a Cobra helicopter," Ahmed Danees, head of foreign relations for the separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), told Reuters in Baghdad by telephone.

He gave no details of casualties but said more information would be released later. The incident occurred during fighting in the remote Chamsku area close to the border, Danees said.

It is virtually impossible to verify the claims of either side because the fighting is taking place in largely inaccessible terrain in tough winter conditions.

U.S. concerns

Early on Sunday Turkish troops patrolled the south of Sirnak province below the snow-topped mountains which border Iraq.

Foot soldiers used metal detectors to search the sides of the remote roads where PKK guerrillas frequently lay mines targeting military vehicles.

A senior Turkish military source told Reuters two brigades made up of around 8,000 troops were taking part. Turkish media have put the number of troops at 10,000, but a senior officer with U.S.-led forces in Baghdad said the number was under 1,000.

Washington is sharing intelligence with NATO ally Turkey on PKK movements in Iraq. It has urged Ankara to limit the campaign to precise rebel targets and to bring it to a swift conclusion.

The United States and the European Union fear a prolonged military campaign inside Iraq would raise the risk of serious clashes between Turkish and Iraqi Kurdish forces and also undermine the fragile U.S.-backed government in Baghdad.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Brother vs. brother in Kurdish strife
U.S. urges Turkey to end incursion in Iraq
2/24/08

Baghdad has urged Ankara to respect its sovereignty. The autonomous Iraqi Kurdish administration of northern Iraq has vowed a tough response if civilians come under attack.

Isolate PKK?

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Sunday Turkey's campaign would not solve its problems with the rebels and urged Ankara to take political and economic steps to isolate the PKK.

Gates also said Turkey should improve communication with Baghdad about the operation and other efforts against the PKK.

Tehran said on Sunday that in the wake of the Turkish action Iran had reinforced its own borders with Iraq, from where Kurdish rebels allied to the PKK have operated against Iran.

Separately, the pro-PKK Firat news agency, which is based in Europe, quoted a top PKK commander in Iraq as urging Kurds in Turkish cities to join the fight against the Turkish state.

"In the big cities, Kurdish youth must give their reply to the military operations. Kurdistan's guerrillas are not just 7,000 or 10,000, they number hundreds of thousands. They are everywhere... in all Turkish cities," Bahoz Erdal said.

Turkey's impoverished, mainly Kurdish southeast has often seen violent pro-PKK protests, though the region has remained largely peaceful since the start of the ground campaign.

Ankara blames the PKK for the deaths of nearly 40,000 people since the group launched its armed struggle in 1984 for an ethnic homeland in southeast Turkey. Turkey, the United States and European Union classify the PKK as a terrorist organization.

Previous Turkish military operations across the border into northern Iraq in the 1990s failed to wipe out the elusive and highly mobile guerrillas.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 10:55 am
Per Juan Cole:

Quote:


Turkey, the NATO ally of the US, invaded Iraqi Kurdistan with between 3,000 and 10,000 troops and is facing heavy opposition from Kurdistan Peshmerga forces and from the Kurdish Workers Party paramilitaries. The Turkish military said in a statement 24 PKK rebels and five soldiers were killed in clashes in Iraq. It also said at least 20 rebels were killed in separate aerial attacks.'

The PKK has killed scores of Turkish soldiers in the past six months, and the Turks consider them a terrorist organization.


That was two days ago. Today:

Quote:
Sunday, February 24, 2008
37 Killed in Turkish-Kurdish Fighting inside Iraq;
Basra Instability Forces British to Postpone Departure

Turkish military land and air operations inside northern Iraq left 35 PKK guerrillas dead on Saturday, and two Turkish soldiers.

The PKK warned that it would blow up people in Turkish cities if the Turkish army did not withdraw. This threat would be more impressive if they hadn't already been blowing up people in Turkish cities.

Iraqi foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari, himself an Iraqi Kurd, said of the operation, "if it goes on, I think it could destabilise the region, because really one mistake could lead to further escalation."

As if to prove Zebari's point, the leader of Iraqi Kurdistan, Massoud Barzani, warned the Turks of large-scale resistance if they advanced toward populated areas.


www.juancole.com

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 11:02 am
Families: Loved ones abused, forgotten in Kurdish prisons
Families: Loved ones abused, forgotten in Kurdish prisons
By Leila Fadel | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008

HALABJA, Kurdistan ?- A picture of a young bearded man hangs in Rabia Fatah's living room, and when she looks at it, she shakes with sobs.

Her son, Dana Ahmed Abdul Rahman, has been in prison for a year and a half. She doesn't know why. She doesn't know when he'll be released. All she has is the photo ?- and memories of her first visit with him, 50 days after he was hauled away in the middle of the night by the Asayish, the U.S.-backed Kurdish government's security intelligence agency.

"They'd tortured him," Fatah, 60, said, fingering her black dress spotted with blue and white flowers. "His face was as black as my dress."

Dana Ahmed Abdul Rahman is one of hundreds of men who've been tossed into Kurdish jails in what advocates and families charge is a growing human rights crisis. It's in a region that the Bush administration touts as one of Iraq's success stories, where violence is rare and Western investment is rising.

Many of the imprisoned men are affiliated with Islamist political parties, and Kurdish officials say they're being held because of possible terrorist links. But their families and human-rights advocates say they think the arrests are part of a crackdown on Islamists by the region's two most powerful political parties, the Kurdistan Democratic Party and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.

The men's families allege that the Kurdish regional government, which touts Iraqi Kurdistan as "the other Iraq," where democracy and freedom flourish and security is assured, is repressive and harsh. Comparisons to the regime of Saddam Hussein and his Baath party are frequent.

"What do you think ?- they won't come after you leave and ask us who you were, what we talked about?" said the brother of one prisoner in explaining why he wouldn't give his name. He said he'd been imprisoned five times during Saddam's rule and three times by Kurdish authorities since 1991, when the United States imposed a no-fly zone over northern Iraq that allowed an autonomous Kurdistan to flourish.

"My brother's in prison. Don't put me in prison, too," he said.

Prisoners' families say that their loved ones are often held in isolation for months, that no legal proceedings are scheduled and that the prisoners are often severely beaten. Prisoners say the jails of the Asayish are jammed, though few are willing to speak openly, even after their release, for fear they'll be snatched up again and sent back.

The central government's Ministry of Human Rights in Baghdad doesn't inspect the prisons and has no authority over them. A spokesman for the regional government's Ministry of Human Rights, Nizam Dlband, acknowledged that some prisoners have been held for months without charges.

But he denied that abuse is routine and said the ministry moves quickly to ensure that innocent people are released and that those facing criminal charges are tried.

"The ministry has not received any proof or evidence or any complaints supported by such evidence to prove that the prisoners were put in solitary cells for such long periods or that they're being abused or tortured," he said. "No one has filed a complaint with us that is supported with such proof, and the allegations have no legal weight without proof."

His denials were echoed by the head of the Asayish in Sulaimaniyah, Wasta Hassan, who said that a judge authorizes all of the arrests.

"Do you think we are monsters?" he said. " We are human beings, and we were in the Baathist regime's jails."

For Abdul Rahman's sister, Farida Ahmed, sitting cross-legged in her family's modest home and offering precious apples and bananas to a guest, the bruises on her brother's face and arms were proof enough.

"I should stay and do something" about her brother's treatment, she said. "But I'm afraid, so I come home and I wait."

Halabja is the Kurdish town where Saddam Hussein ordered a gas attack in 1988 that killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Kurds. Like most adult residents, Farida Ahmed remembers that day. She hid under a blanket in a cave with peshmerga militiamen loyal to Kurdistan's current ruling parties when Saddam's planes attacked.

But the town has soured on its leaders, as shown by a demonstration more than a year ago when angry residents burned a monument to the Halabja dead that sits on the edge of town.

During one session of beatings and interrogation, Abdul Rahman was accused of taking part in the burning, his sister said. But no charges have been brought against him.

Hama Rasheed Hata remembers how he sheltered members of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan during Saddam's time. The current president of Iraq, Jalal Talabani, was among those he hid, he said.

But that loyalty to Kurdish nationalism did nothing to protect his son, who's been in prison for more than a year without charges, he said. Kamel Hama Rasheed Hata was on a trip to the store when police seized him. His father didn't know what had happened for nine months, until the Iraqi Red Crescent Society delivered a letter to him from his son.

When he finally was allowed to visit, he found his son pale and sickly and too afraid to speak.

"The only thing we want is a legal process. Put him on trial and let a judge decide to keep him in jail indefinitely," his brother, Khalil, said. "It makes me angry that my father did so much for them and now they do this to our family."

In another home, Ahmed Fatah Saeed, 70, asked if talking about his son's arrest would help or make the torture in the prison worse. His son, Hikmat Ahmed Fatah, is a member of an Islamist political party. He was held in isolation for six months before his family saw him. They still don't know why he's been jailed.

"If we think this is worse than the Baathist regime we will never say," said his father. "But when you find out everything you will see they are worse."

Recently released prisoners are loath to talk about their experiences, for fear they'll be returned to prison. One man who agreed to be interviewed did so only after he was promised that neither his name nor the precise dates of his imprisonment appear.

He said that the Asayish imprisoned him in Irbil five times between 1999 and 2006. When he was released the last time, he had to promise never to speak about his imprisonment.

His face is handsome, but his nose is slightly crooked from where a prison guard broke it with a pistol. On the back of his neck, a faded circle remains from a cigarette burn. On his lower back is a thin scar where he said his back was split open by the whack of an iron rod.

During his most recent imprisonment he was put in a tiny room for three months. For two minutes a day he was allowed to leave to go to the bathroom. If he stayed too long, he was dragged out by a prison guard. He was blindfolded while questioned and often struck on his back with cables or iron rods.

Once out of isolation he slept in a room so overcrowded that prisoners had to lie touching one another. Some prisoners were treated worse. One's testicles were tied to a tank of kerosene, and when prison guards wanted an answer, they pulled the tank, he said.

At times, the Red Crescent would visit to check the conditions of the prisons. The men in isolation were hidden, he said.

"It is the same system as the Baathist regime," he said. "You can say that it is worse. The students learned from their teacher."

Read Human Rights Watch's July 2007 report, Torture and Denial of Due Process by the Kurdistan Security Forces, at http://hrw.org/reports/2007/kurdistan0707/
----------------------------------

(McClatchy special correspondent Yasseen Taha contributed to this report.)
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 12:01 pm
This is turning into quite a sticky situation for the US as it forces us to choose between our ally in Turkey and Kurdistan and maybe even the Iraqi government.

Turkish helicopter down in Iraq
0 Replies
 
 

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