Tom Friedman: Giuliani - 9/11 is over

Re: Tom Friedman: Giuliani - 9/11 is over


oh yeah. stupid and insane.

Rudy's had over 40 speeches interrupted by phone calls in the last two years.

Someone ought to drop him a line, eheh, that he should turn the damn thing off!

Cycloptichorn

I can agree with your main thrust. We have become "mindlocked" over the 9/11 tragedy. Our present Administration has done some extraordinarily stupid things in the effort to wreak retribution for the incident. Apparently the general population has noticed this also.

Having said that, I do note, that when the incident was recent in memory, neither the Congress nor the general population put up much protest over proposed actions that same Administration proposed. Ah, but memories, particularly in Congress, are mercifully short. :wink:

Yeah, let's get out of this 9/11 mindset and get on with other problems this nation faces. I give only one rejoiner while we "carry on": "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

Halfback

the thing is, some of the problems we need to face are due to the "solutions" to 9/11. we need to reverse the patriot acts, and we need to put an end to state-sponsored torture (mostly of people who haven't been charged with, let alone found guilty of a crime!) and restore habeas corpus.

there are other things that need to be changed back, that were easy to pull off while everyone was busy wandering about mouths agape, not knowing what to say as the country was dismantled. and since the election sphincter has been torn wider and wider since the 2000 election, we need to mend that, or politicians will be able to steal every two out of three elections for the rest of time.

I can agree with most of that. The Bill of Rights have been upended and I don't like to see that, at all. So remedy all that and you have my support.

The last bit, about stolen elections.... quit whining, it's over and done with. We just work to make sure elections are tightened up to the point that the like never happens again. There's your solution.

Halfback

i wasn't whining about the past, i was making note of it. of course the only reason i made the point was for the future's sake- i wasn't trying to change the past. given your reply, we obviously agree on what should (generally) be done in future elections.

I apologize. Too many times over the past number of years I have been treated to bombast about how the Republicans "stole" the election, etc. Got a bit tired of hearing it. Got one shelling from my sister even!

If there were ANY justification to that charge you had better believe the more vocal and liberal of our media would have been ALL over it, like flies on a C-Rat can.

As it stands, the phrase has become more of a battle cry or urban legend. :wink:

We do agree on tightening the election process. Electronics are prone to tampering, as are pencil and paper ballots. "Lost" ballot boxes and other possible fraudulent actions are onother area of concern. Citizen identity is beginning to be a problem also. Too many problems, too little time to solve!

Perhaps more severe prison sentences for proven election fraud might be a step in the right direction. Perhaps fines in proportion to seriousness for election administrators who "loose" ballots, boxes, election computers, etc. (???) Something!

Halfback

you're going to likely think this is nuts, naive, or both, but i think it's a cultural problem.

we have the means to change things. granted, it would be difficult, and once anything becomes politically difficult, it tends to strain the credulity of the general population... after all, we're supposed to be in a free country. if it's difficult to believe there is a problem in the first place, it must be even more difficult to care enough to change it.

i think if the masses really cared about the election process, or even about politics, we'd find the means for accurate elections overnight.

i don't think most people in america care about either. in fact, many denounce politics itself, blissfully unaware that doing so is taking a very political stand... not to mention they tend to support whoever is in power, as if that isn't political.

as for the people that think they care, they astound me. they walk around with clipboards and ask me to sign things. who is going to read them? petitions are very nice and all, but when the constitution is flushed down the toilet, try finding people to protest it. we don't want politics, we seem to prefer to go liberate things. our election system almost seems like a product of this set of priorities. we need a different set of them, i don't think we can get that from fines.