Use of first and last names of candidates

At least we know they're not referring to Bill.

Roger


No excuse, Bill Clinton is not a presidential candidate.

Another stupid thing the media talks about, If Clinton wins the presidency, what should Bill Clinton be called? First Gentleman? Ex presidents are always address as "Mr. President." No need to change his title. His wife would be addressed as Ms or Madam President.

BBB

Actually, I see her referred to as Clinton a lot of the time...

although I suppose I see 'Hillary' more than I see John, Barack, Christopher, Dennis, Rudy, Ron, Mitt, Sam, Tom, Mike, John (etc) put together...

I am sorry... but this is an awfully big stretch.

The term Hillary(tm) is used simply because of the marketing effort by Hillary herself and her supporters (unless you are accusing them of sexism).

This is the banner from HillaryClinton.com.



If she referred to herself as Clinton, then the rest of us would as well.

You sure? You see "condi" how often compared to "donni"? (rumsfeld)

Bill Clinton once claimed that his Scottish friends joked that he should be called the "First Laddy".

And you really think that this is just because Rumsfeld is a man and Condi is a girl?

No, not just. We also tend to abbreviate long or awkwardly spoken names...condoleeza to condi.

But there is a clear tendency in our culture to use the diminutive formations (with all they imply...smallness, infancy, triviality etc) in reference to females but not to males.

The use of someone's first name rather than their last name has similar connotations. Normally, we use first names in a context of familiarity and informality. But that is very close to the diminutive use.

And I think in all these ways, BBB's point is quite valid. You and I understand that there are aspects of the female experience that we often won't appreciate until females point them out a few times.

But the Hillary campaign poster you pasted is pretty hard to argue against. Whatever factors are at work here, she and her campaign are complicit. And there may well be calculated gains from utilizing this cultural tendency.

You may have a point! Therefore I shall refer to her with her full title and name, hence. However "Senator Clinton the Horrible" doesn't sound nearly as catchy as "Hillary the Horrible". :wink:

Halfback

OK. And can we go with Halfback the Hunchback?

If you wish.....it would not be so accurately descriptive, however. I happen to have excellent posture for my age.

Halfback

I agree with ebrown.

Plus, there are plenty of situations in which it's not readily apparent that you're talking about a presidential candidate. As in, "Clinton, Obama and Edwards did a great job in last night's presidential debate," has all the information you need. "Clinton supported NAFTA" doesn't, really.

And what about "W"? (I still see people with those W's on their cars, and always want to ask them what they think about their vote now... but I digress.)

The premise of this thread is a crock.

Hilary should be, and probably is, happy that she is referred to as "Hilary" rather than "Clinton."

Certainly her campaign, as has been noted, encourages the use of "Hilary."

As for this being some sort of sexist attempt to diminish her, how then to explain the prevalent use of "Rudy," or, as sozobe has introduced, even "W?"

Where a so-called "minority" is involved, not everything surrounding the person is an attempt to denigrate them.

It is this sort of silly argument that renders political debate childish.

Why not just call her madame president and get used to it?

Because she is still unable to admit that her support of the Iraq war was a mistake.

Re: Use of first and last names of candidates

I refer to Hillary as Hillary because using "Clinton" just sounds weird. Because of Bill. Clinton is Bill, in my mind, somehow, and that'll take a while of a new President Clinton to slow away.

Its pretty much the same reason why for some time after he started campaigning and became president, I felt awkward calling Bush just Bush. Even though it was usually clear which Bush I was referring to, I still preferred to somehow make an explicit distinction. Of course with Bush the first name didnt work because he shared that with his daddy too, so I kept saying Bush Jr. or GWB for a long time.

I get the point about women politicians being called more quickly by their first name or even some dimunitive - Angela or even Angie for Angela Merkel, for example - but then again, Merkel too actively played on the "Angie" label as well, they see it as an opportunity too. So its hard to tell where the influence of which part starts and stops -- definitively not as clear-cut as you make it out to be.

Of course, Thatcher was always called Thatcher, far as I know, apart from by her most strident detractors (Maggie Maggie Maggie Out Out Out). Then again, that may be exactly why Hillary the candidate is playing up being called Hillary herself -- to avoid or soften a Thatcher-like harshness in her image, and humanise and personalise her image.

And then again, there's the Bill factor as well. For Hillary herself as well it's important to establish herself as her own candidate with her own aura and her own clear-cut profile -- with Bill still looming so large a Clinton, just "Clinton" wont do. Apparently its an instinctive awkwardness shared by the candidate and us regular folks, and hardly by necessity some mysogynist strategy.

I think the reason Hillary's first name is used is because it is easily recognizable basically the world over.

Wow, just read up on the rest of the thread. From ebrown via Finn to Soz. Guess this particular thesis is well and thoroughly demolished then.