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HELP! Moving into new home and need softener ASAP.

 
 
442
 
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:54 pm
Hello everyone,

I'm moving into new construction. Water is municipal well. Only had Culligan out to test on-site. They said its hardness is 24 gpg and a TDS of 270 ppm. No info on pH.

I've read tons of softener sites, FAQ's, manuals, etc., and have arrived here to ask your trusted opinion.

I can compare the specs myself (max hardness, capacity, iron reduction, salt/regen cycle, H2O/regen cycle, salt capacity, etc.) but what I don't have a feel for is quality of craftsmenship, warranty support, etc.

I'm currently looking at Culligan, Home Depot's Rainsoft, Morton System Saver, WaterBoss, and Sear's Kenmore series. This forum has steered me away from Rainsoft, Culligan quoted me a ~$1,600 system, but what about these others? I'm thinking one of these $600-800 systems should be sufficient but I don't want to get a flimsy system that's going to crap out on me in a couple years (or sooner).

There will be only 2 people living in the house but I'm not trying to skimp by. I'd like to size the system for at least a family of four. Is a budget of <$800 sufficient?

Also, any reason to not treat the whole house plus outside spigots? If I don't soften the spigot lines, my siding and cars will get covered with the mineral spots. Many installation diagrams show the spigot line bypassing the softener. Is it just a preference or is one way better than the other, and if so, why?

I'll likely put in an under-the-sink RO system for drinking water but that's not a concern of this post. Those all seem to be around $150.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I've quickly learned that forums are usually they best place to get the real deal when it comes to almost any kind of info. And that's only made possible by knowledgeable contributors who take the time to share with the rest of us.

Thank you in advance! I feel as if I've written a book, but best to be thorough right Wink

442


P.S. Anyone know the significance of my name for extra credit?
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H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 06:21 am
Welcome to A2K,

Do you have a local plumbing supply house that sells the North Star system?
It may provide the biggest bang for your buck.

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 08:04 am
Re: HELP! Moving into new home and need softener ASAP.
442 wrote:
P.S. Anyone know the significance of my name for extra credit?


4 barrel, 4 on the floor, 2 (dual) exhaust

It's not your Father's Oldsmobile, well maybe it was :wink:
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 08:20 am
Re: HELP! Moving into new home and need softener ASAP.
442 wrote:
I'm currently looking at Culligan, Home Depot's Rainsoft, Morton System Saver, WaterBoss, and Sear's Kenmore series. This forum has steered me away from Rainsoft, Culligan quoted me a ~$1,600 system, but what about these others? I'm thinking one of these $600-800 systems should be sufficient but I don't want to get a flimsy system that's going to crap out on me in a couple years (or sooner).

There will be only 2 people living in the house but I'm not trying to skimp by. I'd like to size the system for at least a family of four. Is a budget of <$800 sufficient?


The negatives regarding the (Sears, GE, Whirlpool, Morton, Waterboss, et al) pre-built softeners are ...

Lower quality materials in the control valve, mostly ABS which ages and becomes brittle. ABS does not do well with really hard water. On 3 gr hardness city water most any softener will give a decent service life BUT harder water than that seperates the pre-built box store softeners from the quality ones.

Most of the parts are proprietary and only available from limited sources and they tend to be expensive.

The pre-built softeners are "cabinet" (all-in-one) designs and are much harder to work on. The cabinet design puts the resin tank inside the brine tank. Cleaning the brine tank is more difficult and takes a lot more time than a conventional design softener but the Sears type does take less floor space (the ONLY advantage in it's design).

A common misconception is that pre-built BOX store softeners are less expensive than the industry standard softeners.

The Sears softeners around 40000 hardness capacity generally run a little under $500. For $466 you can have a Fleck 5600SE electronic on demand metered softener delivered to your home including shipping. You'll need to assemble it (takes less than 30 minutes) and install it. You can have a plumber assemble it and install it (you'd need a plumber to install the Sears softener also or DIY). If buying from a local water treatment pro the same softener will be more expensive but will include delivery, installation, and service after the sale.

You'll get a control valve that has proved it's reliability over 20+ years, is made of state of the art materials (Noryl) which does not turn brittle and is totally inert. You'll get a 5 year warranty on the control valve and ten year warranty on the resin tank. You can usually buy parts for the Fleck control valve locally or all over the internet. Complete parts and service/repair manuals are available for download and there is always someone everywhere who can service Fleck control valves as they are the long established industry standard AND they are as easy OR easier to program than the pre-built softeners. They tolerate very hard water with no problem.

Industry standard softeners generally last 20+ years EVEN on ludicrously hard water while the service life on a pre-built softener seems to be under 5 years (if you're lucky) on really hard water and lasting longer than that is a rare exception.

Sears, GE, Waterboss, Morton and the like are the most commonly complained about water softeners all over the internet. Fleck based water softeners just work and work and work and work and work ...

Why buy a lesser quality water softener for more money?

442 wrote:
Also, any reason to not treat the whole house plus outside spigots? If I don't soften the spigot lines, my siding and cars will get covered with the mineral spots. Many installation diagrams show the spigot line bypassing the softener. Is it just a preference or is one way better than the other, and if so, why?


Soften the whole house your car will love you.

442 wrote:
I'll likely put in an under-the-sink RO system for drinking water but that's not a concern of this post. Those all seem to be around $150.


With your TDS I would install an RO and also feed the icemaker.

I'd also want test results for iron before pulling the trigger on a softener.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 08:40 am
Re: HELP! Moving into new home and need softener ASAP.
442 wrote:
I'm moving into new construction. Water is municipal well. They said its hardness is 24 gpg and a TDS of 270 ppm. No info on pH.

You don't need the pH, 'city' water will be 6.5-8.5.
442 wrote:
I've read tons of softener sites, FAQ's, manuals, etc., and have arrived here to ask your trusted opinion.

Who would that be specifically?
442 wrote:
I can compare the specs myself (max hardness, capacity, iron reduction, salt/regen cycle, H2O/regen cycle, salt capacity, etc.) but what I don't have a feel for is quality of craftsmenship, warranty support, etc.

ummm I'll be the judge of that! Wink Chest out, strut yer stuff... what is the K grains per regeneration in a 1.0 cuft softener using regular mesh resin with a salt dose setting of 6 lbs? What would the salt dose setting have to be in lbs if you were going to use potassium chloride? What would the salt efficiency be if you needed 30K in a 1.5 cuft softener with regular mesh resin? What would the salt dose have to be if you used potassium chloride? What is SFR?

What's your peak demand flow rate gpm and what brand meter did you use to measure it?

As to your question... Craftsmanship. You don't find Sears, mortonsalt.com, Whirlpool, GE used anywhere other than residential. The industry standard stuff used in residential and commercial has an Autotrol, Clack, Erie or Fleck control valve on a Structural or Enpress tank. The warranty is industry standard 5 year on those control valves and 10 years on the tanks. Tanks rarely fail, maybe one every few hundred thousand; in 21 yrs I've had 4 and the last 3 were within a few months of each other; I suspect a bad lot.

442 wrote:
I'm currently looking at Culligan, Home Depot's Rainsoft, Morton System Saver, WaterBoss, and Sear's Kenmore series. This forum has steered me away from Rainsoft, Culligan quoted me a ~$1,600 system, but what about these others? I'm thinking one of these $600-800 systems should be sufficient but I don't want to get a flimsy system that's going to crap out on me in a couple years (or sooner).

AH.... and here I thought your softener purchasing education was all but finished. You haven't read of all the problems with the big box store brands and Rainsoft until you get here!

442 wrote:
There will be only 2 people living in the house but I'm not trying to skimp by. I'd like to size the system for at least a family of four. Is a budget of <$800 sufficient?

Would you buy a vehicle based on the size of the family that might buy it when you sell it? You shouldn't buy a softener that way because you can go too big and the thing won't work well at all. Plus, if the softener is sized correctly, it is sized for the peak demand water flow of the building. I thought you knew this stuff. Wink

442 wrote:
Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I've quickly learned that forums are usually they best place to get the real deal when it comes to almost any kind of info. And that's only made possible by knowledgeable contributors who take the time to share with the rest of us.

You're welcome. I agree about forums but... not all the people that answer questions give correct answers or good advice. You can tell which ones are which by how they debate their differences of opinions.

442 wrote:
P.S. Anyone know the significance of my name for extra credit?

April '42.... nah, you're not old enough to know much about the spring after Pear Harbor. Do you? It's good if you do, everyone should, and if they don't, they should go learn from their fathers, grandfathers and other guys before it's too late. This girly men feminization of the American male has to stop NOW! Sorry. April '42. I was only conceived two months earlier, just as Dad left for WWII on his way to Belgium and the Battle of the Bulge, then on to somewhere in Germany. OK... 4+4+2... you're really a '10'! or is it a Jeep thing? I just bought my first, but I used to have a '68 Toyota Land Cruiser, they were better than a Jeep back then. Now you've done it... this reminiscing reminds me of my long lost love from England..... she was born just north of London 4/14/42. We met in the spring 1962 at RAF Conningsby Lincolnshire England. USAF 25 May 1960-25 Jan 1965. We went to London once for a weekend. I can still see the picture of my Dad in his Army dress uniform at Piccadilly Circle in Trafalgar Square IIRC (in London) in May 1944. D-day, 6 Jun '44, was just a few short weeks away. Lucky for us the lying Democrats we have in Congress now weren't around yet or I'd never met her and we'd be speaking German or Japanese instead of being concerned about learning Spanish; and eventually, if we survive that! Arabic. None of them will buy water softeners, they all seem to love livin' rustic in dust'n sand with little water and the harder the better. 442, what the hell for kinda name is that! My '72, Peterbilt truck tractor had a 4x4 two stick Spicer tranny (16 speed for math challenged among us) and it and the '73 and '74 Petes all had dual exhausts. Wink My '62 Mini (left hand drive, bought new in England, taken to Holland and brought back to FL) had a pair of rockin' carburetors and a synchronized 4 on the floor front wheel drive transaxle tranny.... So without saying 442 (today close counts).
0 Replies
 
442
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 10:56 am
Thanks to everyone who responded so far. Lightning fast at that, I LOVE IT!


H2O_MAN,
Thank you for welcoming me! Looks like North Star is in Ontario. I'm in Volo, Illinois (~45 miles NW of Chicago). I haven't called North Star yet to see if someone local is an authorized distributor, but their web didn't mention anything besides having a "Contact Us" web form and phone#. I'll give them a ring later today and see what they have to say.

NorthStar Conditioning
5240 Bradco Blvd
Mississauga, ON
L4W 1G7
Tel: 1-800-796-6784, Fax: 1-800-280-5775



justalurker,
So a Fleck 5600SE you say? Google fetches me a variety of places I can purchase Fleck. Does anyone have a particular Fleck distributor that is tried and true. So far didn't see anything in Illinois, but Ohiopurewaterco.com looks interesting. The 40,000 grain capacity seems like a good choice based on 2-3 occupants, 24 gpg hardness and assumed worst-case scenario 3 ppm iron (iron not tested but water shows no signs of discoloration or taste). Seems like everyone loves Fleck. I can install it myself (or more importantly, get help if I need it). Should I just start deciding which Fleck to get, not which brand?

Regarding RO, I was planning on an under-the-sink unit with sink spigot. My fridge is across the room with it's water line coming right through the back wall which is where the water meter is and where the lucky softener will be. Without really getting into it, would I not need two RO units, one for under the sink and one for the fridge's water line? I don't think the plumbing can allow me the just send the source through the RO on to the fridge and sink. It's new construction and I don't own it yet until next week. I'll start a separate post for my RO issues if I need to.



Mr. Slusser I presume?
Leave it to me wake the giants by claiming some level of knowledge regarding the subject that runs through their veins. Now I have homework to do.... Smile
But seriously, I appreciate EVERYONE's posts. Since I don't recall all my sources, rest assured they were probably slanted in every way, shape, and form in hopes that I buy their respective product.
So pH is of no concern, great.

Well if you must: (pardon my inability to use the forum's quoting feature)

-20K grains/regen for 1.0 cubic foot of regular mesh resin with salt dose setting of 6 lbs.

-To use KCl rather than NaCl, you'd have to increase the salt dose by about 20%, making it ~7.2 lbs of KCl if your softener salt dose is set for high salt efficiency.

-Since both the capacity and cubic feet of resin was increased by 150%, and assuming that the NaCl load was also increased 150% to 9 lbs, the salt efficiency will remain unchanged at ~0.29 lb salt/kgrn.

-If KCl is used here, again assuming that the salt load was upped 150%, you'd need 20% more KCl than NaCl, so if 9 lbs of NaCl was used in the previous example, ~10.8 lbs of KCl would be required.

-SFR's are service flow ratings a.k.a. peak and continuous flow in gpm. You want to pay strict attention to the continuous flow gpm. Most softeners do not tell you the continuous flow rate, only the peak gpm. If your flow rate exceeds either figure, the softener will not be able to remove all the hardness in your water. Continuous means as long as you use that gpm flow rate. Peak is usually for a 2-3 minute period at best and as a softener ages, that figure can decrease.

As mentioned, I'm moving into new construction so I haven't measured my peak demand flow. All I can say is that it'll be two of us. Worst case may be showering or running a bath, watering the lawn, washing machine, and dishwasher all running at once but as you can imagine that'd be very unlikely.

As for trying to oversize slightly, I see your point regarding peak demand. I was just thinking that I'd hate to buy a softener only to replace it in a year or two if living arrangements change and the home housed a couple more people.


I hope I've conveyed my sincerity in finding the best softener for my home. I appreciate any and all help any of you in this forum may provide.

442

P.S. No one is even close... Smile
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 11:28 am
The modestly priced Fleck 5600SE would do and at a little higher cost the 2510SE or 7000 should be considered.

442 wrote:
As for trying to oversize slightly, I see your point regarding peak demand. I was just thinking that I'd hate to buy a softener only to replace it in a year or two if living arrangements change and the home housed a couple more people.


Competent water treatment pros do consider the # of people who would be in a house when only two live there when sizing a softener. Choosing a softener that is just adequate for a family of two to service a 4 bedroom house leads to another softener purchase if the family grows, relatives move in, son or daughter comes back home to live, or the house is sold.

If the softener is chosen for the average water usage that house would see with the average size family living there it can always be throttled back to think it is smaller or a calender day override can be set so the softener wouldn't go too long before regenerating.

Increasing the size of a softener at time of purchase is a minor expense and a whole lot less money than replacing a softener when you shouldn't have had to.

If I were you I'd inquire of local water treatment professionals and address those questions to them and take what you read from strangers with keyboards with a 40lb bag of NaCl... or KCl :wink:

FREE advice is worth what you pay for it.

442 wrote:
P.S. No one is even close... Smile


The 442nd Regimental Combat Team of the United States Army?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 11:55 am
WOW! 442 Impressive! You done great.

If I understand your answer about capacity though, you're off some, but now you're going astray with North Star and Fleck. That $466 is for a 1.0 cuft and it is way undersized for your family and water quality at least. North Star is a two tank version of a Kenmore, mortonsalt.com, Whirlpool, GE or low end Ecowater softener. You don't want any of them.

You should also look at the Clack WS-1 control valve. You need to learn a bit more about the SFR your house requires. Yes, I size for continuous flow rate and 0 gpg soft water at all times with the actual peak demand of the house based on your family size etc..

A little bit about control valves.... over the last 21 years I've sold Autotrol, Bruner (out of business since Culligan bought them), Clack, Erie and Fleck. Actually I was a Fleck guy from 1987 to Jan 2004 when I became a Clack guy selling Fleck too. Clack is a copy of the Fleck one moving part in the water stream, seal and spacer deign with extensive improvements and much lower cost parts prices. You can totally rebuild a Clack and have the water back on is 30 minutes. And the only tool needed is a pair of Channel Lock pliers. All Clack valves are designed by 3 ex Fleck engineers with 28, 22 and 18 yrs at Fleck until roughly 1999. The senior guy invented my ex-beloved 5600. I've sold and serviced thousands of them, along with the 1500, 6600, 6700, 2500, 2510, TwinFlow 100E, 9000 and 9100. There's a few 2750 and 2850 valves in there too. And now 890+/- Clack valves since Jan 2004. I've had 19 problems with the Clack valves.... had I sold that many 5600 and 2510s, I'd expect like 45-75 problems. And they don't have the features a Clack has.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 12:16 pm
442 wrote:
-To use KCl rather than NaCl, you'd have to increase the salt dose by about 20%, making it ~7.2 lbs of KCl if your softener salt dose is set for high salt efficiency.


According to North American Salt here are the numbers for using KCl vs NaCl...


http://qualitywaterassociates.com/images/KCl2.jpg
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 01:14 pm
justalurker wrote:
The modestly priced Fleck 5600SE would do and at a little higher cost the 2510SE or 7000 should be considered.


I stopped selling the 5600 due to lack of features, it is a 3/4" valve and the difficulty for a DIYer to repair it. I stopped selling the 7000 because of all the problems my customers had with it. Also, if you use the variable brining, it will use much more water than a control valve without the feature. More water can cause increased sewer bills.

442 wrote:
As for trying to oversize slightly, I see your point regarding peak demand. I was just thinking that I'd hate to buy a softener only to replace it in a year or two if living arrangements change and the home housed a couple more people.


A correctly sized softener or backwashed or regenerated filter is sized for the number of bathrooms and type of fixtures in the house, which dictates the SFR. The number of people is used in calculating the capacity. The salt dose used establishes the capacity. All you do if more people move in is to recalculate the capacity and the salt dose needed to regenerate it.

justalurker wrote:
Competent water treatment pros do consider the # of people who would be in a house when only two live there when sizing a softener. Choosing a softener that is just adequate for a family of two to service a 4 bedroom house leads to another softener purchase if the family grows, relatives move in, son or daughter comes back home to live, or the house is sold.


See above.

justalurker wrote:
If the softener is chosen for the average water usage that house would see with the average size family living there it can always be throttled back to think it is smaller or a calender day override can be set so the softener wouldn't go too long before regenerating.


Throttled back.... A too large softener is a no no due to channeling. Obviously you don't know about channeling. And you wouldn't use a calendar override as a solution to channeling.

justalurker wrote:
Increasing the size of a softener at time of purchase is a minor expense and a whole lot less money than replacing a softener when you shouldn't have had to.


A correctly sized softener is correctly sized for the house it's installed in; not too small or too large. See above.

justalurker wrote:
If I were you I'd inquire of local water treatment professionals and address those questions to them and take what you read from strangers with keyboards with a 40lb bag of NaCl... or KCl :wink:


I can prove everything I've said. Yet if you and/or any dealer and/or softener salesmen can't prove your opinion, you still say I'm wrong.

Did you notice 442's statements about SFR etc.? You should have. Here's what Sybron says about resins. Purolite says 1-5 gpg/cf. See if you see the number of family members mentioned anywhere in it (I can't):
____________
The service flow rate should be 2 - 5 gpm/cf or 5 - 10 gpm/sq.ft. A higher flowrate will cause shorter service cycles. High flow rates can exceed the kinetics of the resin. This means the resin cannot react fast enough. An exhaustion band forms that contains both regenerated and exhausted resin. As the flow rate increases this band will expand. This expansion reduces the amount of usable resin in the unit. However, in many applications higher flowrate can be used since the hardness leakage is not as critical. When higher flowrates are used, it is important to know that the hardness leakage will increase, the capacity will decrease and the pressure drop will increase. As long as these parameters stay within specification of the equipment and customer requirement no excessive damage should occur to the softening resin In condensate polishing applications, flowrates have been as high as 50 gpm/sq.ft. If the flowrate is too low, the water can channel through the bed. Since the water pressure is reduced the water follows the path of least resistance, causing pockets of resin (regenerated) to be by-passed and the service cycles will be shorter than expected. The units distribution must also be good whether the flowrate is high or low, so all the resin is utilized.

Equipment testing is suggested to optimize the flowrate for a given system.
____________

My pre brine refilled softeners are tested everyday by their owners, They get 0 gpg soft water regardless how much water their family and guests use, and they get exceptional salt efficiency.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 02:21 pm
justalurker wrote:
According to North American Salt here are the numbers for using KCl vs NaCl...

Everyone should know that in Aug 2005 during a discussion about the use of potassium chloride, such as now, justalurker sent me the article in the picture he posted. He sent 24 of them to prove me wrong.... I just dug it and the rest, along with ALL our email from Oct 2003 to IIRC, Nov 2005. I dug up all that last Thursday and posted the picture in another thread here.

Recall his comment about "the numbers"... they are after where North American Salt say that no change has to be made to the softener, right?

It's right there in their article. So which should we go with... what they say or the numbers as Steve says? You do know they don't sell or service softeners right?

But what about when the salt dose is 2 lbs/cuft like the (2.0 cuft) softener I sold last night? How much should I have increased the salt dose when "the numbers" say 12% for a 4.5lb setting? Or is that 1.2?

In your opinion Steve, do they mean the total salt for the softener OR the salt dose per cuft of resin in the softener?

You do realize that is per cuft right? Probably not, since you didn't when you programed the softener you bought from me in Jul 2004. Even after I told you the 6 lbs was PER CUFT and you had a 1.5 cuft softener!! And the various cuft sizes were printed along the left edge of the chart you were reading!!

Dumbass and then go around from forum to forum for two years now telling people you had to fine tune it but it worked fine "despite Gary". LOL

I guess they, North American Salt, and YOU, don't see any difference between resins either, like fine mesh or SST-60, right Steve? We should use "the numbers" regardless of the type of resin in the softener.

Here's what Sybron, the makers of C-249 resin, says. Note no mention of the largest manufacturer of it in North America or anywhere else, but they do mention water softener industry experts.
______________
Potassium Chloride (KCl), also known as potash, can be used as an alternative regenerant.

Theoretically, for every pound of NaCl used 1.27 lbs of KC1 should be used. Based on prior testing by industry experts, it appears that the difference is not as great as the theoretical amount.

Performance testing should be performed to establish the difference in capacity in a given unit.
________________

My and other customers that have taken your and North American Salt's advice end up with their softeners not removing all the hardness and iron in their water.

BTW, you've been telling people your wife likes the taste of the KCl softened water better than NaCL softened water. You also say we use an RO. Which is it, if she uses RO water why's she tasting the softened water?[size=7][/size]
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 02:48 pm
0 Replies
 
lmur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 02:56 pm
I'll have a tilt at that "442" thingy, especially as I couldn't give a thrupenny-shite for water softeners and their flog-artists.

Brit ex-pat soccer fan. Et tu, Beckham?
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 03:57 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
Throttled back.... A too large softener is a no no due to channeling. Obviously you don't know about channeling. And you wouldn't use a calendar override as a solution to channeling.


Not a grossly oversized softener but a properly sized softener for the intended number of occupants based on the house. Channeling would only occur in your threats.

Gary Slusser wrote:
Dumbass...


The math and details in the NA Salt info sheet you posted were confirmed by their engineer and a Purolite employee over two years ago. There is no doubt that Purolite knows more about their resin than...

With Purolite's and NA Salt's AND a field rep from Clack's advice my softener was properly set up and working incredibly efficiently until it was relegated to doorstop and occasional loaner duty for a variety of reasons.

Anyone who blindly believes any stranger whether with a keyboard, a web site, and a cash register or locally in person without really checking the facts BEFORE spending your money is asking to be ripped.

It is a lot easier to size someone up when you can look them in the eye than squinting at a computer monitor.

I'll continue to post facts while you continue to post personal attacks and insult any and all who disagree with you.

BTW, sometimes you just want a fast glass of water from the faucet and sometimes you use the RO. Both the softened water and RO water faucets are handy in the kitchen, but no RO faucets anywhere else, so we'll continue to drink both and we DO prefer the taste of KCl softened water to NaCl softened water.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 04:57 pm
442 wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded so far. Lightning fast at that, I LOVE IT!


H2O_MAN,
Thank you for welcoming me! Looks like North Star is in Ontario. I'm in Volo, Illinois (~45 miles NW of Chicago).
I haven't called North Star yet to see if someone local is an authorized distributor, but their web didn't mention
anything besides having a "Contact Us" web form and phone#. I'll give them a ring later today and see what they have to say.

NorthStar Conditioning
5240 Bradco Blvd
Mississauga, ON
L4W 1G7
Tel: 1-800-796-6784, Fax: 1-800-280-5775

............


As for trying to oversize slightly, I see your point regarding peak demand. I was just thinking that I'd hate to buy a
softener only to replace it in a year or two if living arrangements change and the home housed a couple more people.


I hope I've conveyed my sincerity in finding the best softener for my home.
I appreciate any and all help any of you in this forum may provide.

442

P.S. No one is even close... Smile


North Star is an excellent system if you don't want to spend much money.
If you want the very best system available contact your local EcoWater dealer.
0 Replies
 
442
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 02:52 pm
Fellow champions of quality water,

What are your thoughts on a Fleck system? I'm looking at the following website since it's the closest Fleck dealer I've found. Would you mind checking it out and suggesting a system?

http://store.qualitywaterforless.com/

I'm thinking the 5600SE 40K grain capacity on this page:
http://store.qualitywaterforless.com/fl56elmeso.html

I like the idea of having an easy to service Fleck valve, but I also need to get something installed as soon as this Wednesday so the fact that this supplier is <50 miles away is attractive.

Many thanks to all that take the time to assist me!

442

P.S. Major hint: TDS-related
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 03:18 pm
442 - a formulation that most closely represents the conductivity to ppm relationship, on average, for naturally occurring fresh water.


I used the metered Fleck 2510SE valve on all of the softeners I sell locally.
The 2510SE is a robust no frills electronically metered control valve.

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 04:20 pm
442 wrote:
What are your thoughts on a Fleck system? I'm looking at the following website since it's the closest Fleck dealer I've found. Would you mind checking it out and suggesting a system?


They show "hi-capacity resin" but no brand. I'd expect Purolite C100 and I'd want a upper (top) basket for the control valve, they don't mention a top basket or show one in the installation instructions.

That seller favors the 5600SE and doesn't list the 2510SE, but it's hard to beat the 5600SE for the money.

I'd choose a 1.5 cu ft softener instead of the 1.25 cu ft softener

Their prices are good.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 09:17 am
justalurker wrote:
Not a grossly oversized softener but a properly sized softener for the intended number of occupants based on the house. Channeling would only occur in your threats.

"..... based on the house."? What specifically do you mean by that?

justalurker wrote:
With Purolite's and NA Salt's AND a field rep from Clack's advice my softener was properly set up and working incredibly efficiently until it was relegated to doorstop and occasional loaner duty for a variety of reasons.

Unlike you, the rest of my customers follow my instructions and get the same efficiency out of their softeners.

And IMO only a dumbass would use a softener as a door stop that was in fact "working incredibly efficiently" and was only two years old. Steve, that is a fact.
0 Replies
 
442
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 12:09 pm
Some closure
Hello everyone,

Thought it'd be nice to share my outcome with all those who helped me along the way. I'm in my new house, have my Fleck 5600SE installed, and enjoy my soft water.

I ended up picking up the system from a place ~30 miles from my house. My father helped me install it that same day. Fleck 5600SE, 1.0 cuft of C-249 resin, with tank jacket, and a stainless steel by pass valve. For $20, I upgraded to C-249 resin over their standard "Hi-Capacity Resin". We installed the unit under my stairs to save space so salt cubes are out of the question so I poured in 80 lbs. of Morton System Saver NaCl pellets. I'm curious about KCl, but will probably stick to NaCl. The unit is programmed to recharge every 1200 gallons. For me and my girlfriend, it took us 8 days to use 1200 gallons.

It's crazy how soapy and sudsy the water gets. As for the whole softened water saving water, I wonder if the fact that you have to use so much to rinse cancels out any benefit! Maybe I just have to get used to realizing that the soap is gone even when it still feels slick and slimy...

Can't wait until the next time I need to visit the forum for help!

Cheers,
442

P.S. H20_MAN gets the prize. Please provide me your Credit Card# w/ expiration date and CVV2# on back, Billing address, SS#, Mother's maiden name, and shoe size so I can send you your prize. J/K Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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