Italy or France: Which has the better cuisine?

I know this is a tangent, but hey...

http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-calcook26sep26,1,6267469.story?coll=la-headlines-food

Oh yes, Mame. No doubt the Italians make some fantastic pasta dishes.

I was really referring to a misconception that I think many Americans have -- that Italian cooking is all about spaghetti and ravoli.

There is an older woman from Naples who lives in my building. She is just as likely to create a meal by cooking some veal in light sauce, along with some beautifully prepared asparagus, rather than the big heaping bowl of pasta that most Americans would expect.

In fact, I think Europeans in general have a more diversified palette than we Americans do. When we think of red meat, we think of beef. We never consider the other possibilities. Same thing with vegetables. Americans stick to the basic ones (lettuce, tomato, radishes, cucumber, and of course......potatos!). They rarely think about veggies like asparagus or chard, etc.

I'd like to see my fellow Americans learn to enjoy having a wider range of choices!

hmmm, I'm a chard liker. I've used it with osso buco.... very good, if I do say so.

That would be nice. Every time I buy fennel, the cashier asks me what
it is, and so do most of my guests.

Funny you should mention fennel - the first time I had it raw was in Fiesole, served with Extra Virgin Olive Oil (of course!) and some rough salt - it was delicious!

And Stray Cat, you're right - Italy isn't all about pasta (although they do offer it everywhere) - I prefer the veal, the fish, the chicken, myself... and the wonderful olives and salads... yes, Italian food is wonderful! Oh, and the rabbit! Our hosts served rabbit much to my delight and my husband's chagrin

I didn't know what poutine was.

For others who are in the same boat....







It looks like something that's been eaten once already.


I voted Italian.

Well, the problem with fennel is that grocery stores, even good ones of whom I've yammered at the produce manager, call it anise.

Some dodo called it anise years ago, and so it stays....







Ok, slightly less often lately, but it still happens. I'm busy having my closest grocery store have sheer **** for produce, plus no herbs, or maybe one, cilantro. Brooks, that's the name, Brooks.




Back in Venice in yesteryear, there were many possible grocery stores within a few miles. I won't say Gelson's was the best, but they had standards within their standards. At the north bit of the area, we had a good international market, but not with much in the way of fresh veggies then. We also had a low income area in between, with a Lucky's.

Yep, Lucky's potato chips were burnies.

I presume those stores buy the lowest per the area, and it drives me nutso.





Off of rant, Gelson's was one that called fennel anise.

Poutine looks like it would clog your arteries at once.
I've never tried it and probably never will.

!!
Wise woman, CJ - I have only smelled it and tasted one french fry - it was revolting! My daughter did her French Exchange in a teeny tiny town in Quebec and had to sample poutine, of course! Well, by the end of 3 months, she loved it, and we are not even a french fry eating family How to corrupt an Anglophile in one fell swoop. Feh!

Well, the problem with fennel is that grocery stores, even good ones of whom I've yammered at the produce manager, call it anise.

Some dodo called it anise years ago, and so it stays.... that's what it is on the books.







Ok, slightly less often lately, but it still happens. I'm busy having my closest grocery store have sheer **** for produce, plus no herbs, or maybe one, cilantro. Brooks, that's the name, Brooks.




Back in Venice in yesteryear, there were many possible grocery stores within a few miles. I won't say Gelson's was the best - a certain small store with a great butcher was the best - but they had standards within their standards. At the north bit of the area, in Santa Monica, we had a good and in retrospect great international market, but not with much in the way of fresh veggies back then. We also had a low income area with gang problems in between, with a Lucky's. (I've friends raised there, am defensive re dumps on city blocks).

Yep, Lucky's potato chips were burnies.

I presume those stores buy the lowest price, in that the area won't notice or care, and that presumption drives me nutso.





Off of rant, Gelson's was one that called fennel anise.

CJ wrote:


I've had that happen before too -- once when I was buying a celery root, another time when I bought some raddiccio. Once, when I bought an eggplant (aubergine), the clerk commented, "not too many people buy these."

It's pretty sad when they work at a food market and still don't know what these things are.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant twice.

Yes, Stray Cat, very few of them know, but celery root is such a nutritious vegetable and tastes delicious on top of it - unfortunately it's not always available. Eggplants are also underrated, and so good, if prepared well.

You were ranting?

Anise (I just learned) is a member of the parsley family; its seeds are often used to flavor sweets, alcoholic beverages (ouzo, anisette)and southeast Asian cooking. Fennel, which is more of a Mediterranean vegetable, is more substantial and can be eaten fresh or cooked--I love it either way!

http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/boilingwater/boiling_fennel.html

I bet there are some markets who do train people in all this, but how much, how far, when the general population wants just some potatoes.

If I had serious bucks, I'd open up a store to compete with, say, whole foods, in inventive ways.

Not just in italian and french, or, the obvious long term cuisine, chinese (complex), but over the globe - a store that had links re cooking with this and that, videos (ok, dvds, whatever),

I'd make it a website to die for, and a place to walk into and plotz.

I'm on the old side and underfunded. I wish others well.

Knowing me, the tv programs would have both travelog sections and interviews of artisans.

To some extent, SlowFood (I'm a member in my flush with money years) is doing some of this, but it's not getting to my damned grocery store.

My lil diatribe brings up the obvious question about local produce growth, newly interesting to me here in the land of inferno heat and snow carpets.
Big diff from California, some areas of north, south, or central being wonderfully verdant, and some of those with water help.

I don't know. I'm in veg deprivation here, and I don't know if that is all cultural, a horticultural matter, or some mix. I consider parts of Mexico local to me, but need to read more. I'm interested in the politics and economics - just consider me a learner.

As much as I love Italian cuisine, I'd vote for France anytime. It's more varied and more artful.

Steve made my day by stating that London being the best place to eat because it boasts some posh restaurants chefs and critics lie.
The average tourist and, I'd guess, the average Londoner, eats baaaad! (Or at innaffordable prices).

CJ, I've probably bought fennel 50 times when labelled as anise, from grocers across the spectrum.


Thus, by my view, all of them have been following some kumquat pursor from decades ago.

I'll go for that French has more art.







Is art good? Of course I think it is worthwhile, see thousands of incoherent or occasionally right on posts by me.


Does Keller or Bulli or whomever on the world scene deliver more luxe, or rough, or zappy flavor? French or italian? or realms past those categories? Do we love fusion or despise it. The hunt goes on for true recipes...

Ok, I stipulate French has more art.

many of the best meals look revolting. it's difficult for hand made gnocchi with a messy sauce to look great, for example. and far harder for french fries smothered in gravy with cheese to look respectable. but wait till you try it. poutine is divine.

...then again, i'm a slovak, we have potatoes circulating in our veins.