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Don't tell me there's any proof for creationism.

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:13 pm
Because creationists wish to interpret vague images as being those of dinosaurs does not constitute evidence that ancient humans had direct contact with living dinosaurs--it isn't even convincing evidence that the images alluded to are accurate representations of dinosaurs.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:18 pm
Setanta wrote:
Because creationists wish to interpret vague images as being those of dinosaurs does not constitute evidence that ancient humans had direct contact with living dinosaurs--it isn't even convincing evidence that the images alluded to are accurate representations of dinosaurs.


I agree. It's not conclusive.

But I find it very interesting that cultures all around the globe seem to have very similar representations of dino-like critters in their art and lore.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:27 pm
Whether or not such images are "dino-like" is a subjective judgment--just like morality.

Whether or not it is interesting to you is also not relevant, nor evidence of anything other than your constant refusal to address direct and unambiguous questions. If one were to stipulate your dinosaur horsie-poop, just for sake of discussion, in what way would that constitute evidence for creationism, the titular burden of this thread?
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:27 pm
real life wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Because creationists wish to interpret vague images as being those of dinosaurs does not constitute evidence that ancient humans had direct contact with living dinosaurs--it isn't even convincing evidence that the images alluded to are accurate representations of dinosaurs.


I agree. It's not conclusive.

But I find it very interesting that cultures all around the globe seem to have very similar representations of dino-like critters in their art and lore.


Vampires too.

And Ghosts.

And boogeymen.

And Santa Claus.

And many other commonly held superstitions passed down through generations and eventually discarded as quaint relics of a history greatly forgotten.....just like Christianity will eventually be (hopefully within my lifetime).
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:57 pm
Real Lie tried to point to a thread by gunga for his dino proof. I pointed out what the depiction was and even gave him the NAME of the damn thing. Of course I was wrongÂ…how did I know that was what it was. He is such an idiot when he moved from prehistoric caves to Ankor Wat he didn't realize he was moving to a literate civilization and anyone who cares to research it can find the image in texts of the time along with an explanation of what it is. I guess the next question would be how would those people know what it was that they were interpreting? He defines the term pathetic.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 07:27 pm
real life wrote:
But I find it very interesting that cultures all around the globe seem to have very similar representations of dino-like critters in their art and lore.

Now you are saying yourself that the pictures are dino-like. They aren't perfect, or even excellent, reproductions. Having established that, maybe you'd like to revisit a point we argued many pages ago: That such likeness can be achieved by finding a dino-skeleton and using ones fantasy to reconstruct the animal.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:22 pm
real life wrote:
But I find it very interesting that cultures all around the globe seem to have very similar representations of dino-like critters in their art and lore.

I find it very interesting that a phrase like, "I find it very interesting..." so strongly implies that something is relevant, when it's not.

(I think I just rendered my own observation irrelevant)
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 06:56 am
Reading this thread is like watching a blind guy arguing with a deaf guy about the taste of french fries.

Posted earlier here
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:04 am
The current epistemological position that science takes, since the late 1920's, is you can NEVER know what is really going on behind the scenes. You can only correlate experiences and make predictions. I would never argue religion vs science. That's not what these treads are, in my opinion. They are arguing 4000+ year old science vs current science. And apparently the only way those on the side of 4000 year old science can do that is to lie about current science, which none seem to have taken the slightest effort to actually learn.

Unlike some others here I have nothing against religion per se.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:16 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
The current epistemological position that science takes, since the late 1920's, is you can NEVER know what is really going on behind the scenes. You can only correlate experiences and make predictions. I would never argue religion vs science. That's not what these treads are, in my opinion. They are arguing 4000+ year old science vs current science. And apparently the only way those on the side of 4000 year old science can do that is to lie about current science, which none seem to have taken the slightest effort to actually learn.

Unlike some others here I have nothing against religion per se.

I agree. This is not about religion vs science.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:54 am
Thomas wrote:
real life wrote:
But I find it very interesting that cultures all around the globe seem to have very similar representations of dino-like critters in their art and lore.

Now you are saying yourself that the pictures are dino-like. They aren't perfect, or even excellent, reproductions. Having established that, maybe you'd like to revisit a point we argued many pages ago: That such likeness can be achieved by finding a dino-skeleton and using ones fantasy to reconstruct the animal.


Some of them are very good reproductions. The photos of the Cambodian temple are one example.

Some of them aren't as good (duh, you mean all artists haven't the same skill?), but are still dino-like.

But your idea that 'cavemen' reconstructed a dino skeleton (in fact , 'cavemen' all around the globe would have had to do this, so common are these images in ancient art of many cultures) when it takes trained scientists many years[/u][/b] to do so, is just silly.

C'mon Thomas. Laughing

Using one's fantasy? And in many instances ending up with extremely similar results by artists separated by thousands of miles and possibly thousands of years?

That's why I consider these images to be so important. The simplest and most reasonable explanation is that they were based on something the artists saw.[/u][/b]

I told Setanta they weren't conclusive. And they're not.

But really, your attempt at this caveman reconstruction bit is lame.

If the skeletons your caveman found were tens or hundreds of millions years old, then the few thousand years difference between us and them wouldn't give them any appreciable difference in the preservation and quality than what we see today, would it?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:55 am
rosborne979 wrote:
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
The current epistemological position that science takes, since the late 1920's, is you can NEVER know what is really going on behind the scenes. You can only correlate experiences and make predictions. I would never argue religion vs science. That's not what these treads are, in my opinion. They are arguing 4000+ year old science vs current science. And apparently the only way those on the side of 4000 year old science can do that is to lie about current science, which none seem to have taken the slightest effort to actually learn.

Unlike some others here I have nothing against religion per se.

I agree. This is not about religion vs science.
Note thread topic and initial post.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:59 am
Which I thought was the point of the post, that there is no SCIENTIFIC proof for a purely religious concept, which others have been trying to say there is on other threads. I though the original post meant to show the absurdity/futility of any attempt to do this. I may have misunderstood.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:00 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
... a thread by gunga for his dino proof. I pointed out what the depiction was and even gave him the NAME of the damn thing.


The fact that the ancient culture was portraying what they considered to be a god doesn't address the question of where the image came from.

On what was it based?

Imagination, or something they saw?

If imagination, explain the strong similarities world wide.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:09 am
real life wrote:
Some of them aren't as good (duh, you mean all artists haven't the same skill?), but are still dino-like.

Not dino-like enough to require a trained scientist and many years to make. Besides, your assertion that it takes a trained scientist years to reconstruct a body from a reasonably complete skeleton is supported yet by anything but your say-so. And rhetoric like "just silly" and "c'mon" adds no evidence whatsoever. Whom and what you consider silly is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:15 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
Which I thought was the point of the post, that there is no SCIENTIFIC proof for a purely religious concept, which others have been trying to say there is on other threads. I though the original post meant to show the absurdity/futility of any attempt to do this. I may have misunderstood.
Exactly.

What we accept as evidence and how we evaluate such evidence differs between disciplines.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:34 am
real life wrote:
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
... a thread by gunga for his dino proof. I pointed out what the depiction was and even gave him the NAME of the damn thing.


The fact that the ancient culture was portraying what they considered to be a god doesn't address the question of where the image came from.

On what was it based?

Imagination, or something they saw?

If imagination, explain the strong similarities world wide.

Is it a dinosaur or an ant eater? The long snout doesn't really tell us much.

Are those humps on the back supposed to represent bones or hair standing on end? You really can't tell in primitive art.

Check out children's art world wide. You will notice a lot of similarities. It doesn't mean that people are flat with no noses or lips. It only means that the way primitive minds attempt to portray things they see are not true representations.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:51 am
Parados:
You are exactly correct in your analogy. Anyone who wants to research it further can reference Jung and his idea of the archetypes of the collective unconscious. He agrees with you that this is probably based on the fact that we share a common brain and physiology.

We have concepts that anyone anywhere can understand as they are universal: mother/father, love/hate creation/destruction. Except when it is meaning to deceive us (for example) is evil represented as beautiful or ugly by cultures around the world? It would be their concepts of beauty or ugly of course, which is where inflections of the local culture come into play. How did they come to agree with that if evil isn't really ugly? Put that way it becomes a rather ridicules question, doesn't it?
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 09:15 am
Thomas wrote:
real life wrote:
Some of them aren't as good (duh, you mean all artists haven't the same skill?), but are still dino-like.

Not dino-like enough to require a trained scientist and many years to make. Besides, your assertion that it takes a trained scientist years to reconstruct a body from a reasonably complete skeleton is supported yet by anything but your say-so. And rhetoric like "just silly" and "c'mon" adds no evidence whatsoever. Whom and what you consider silly is completely irrelevant to this discussion.


'Reasonably complete skeletons' are also very rare.

And when they exist, they usually take years of careful excavation to get them out intact so that they can be reconstructed.

They are very seldom just lying on the ground waiting to be found. Laughing
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 10:18 am
As usual, Real Life has everyone defending evolution instead of showing any evidence whatsoever for creationism.

Suckers!
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