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Don't tell me there's any proof for creationism.

 
 
bigdog279
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 04:20 am
Someone tell me how life actually started as a single-celled organism. where did it come from?
And just to ask...
who believes in the super-island breaking up into bits and pieces till it becomes what it is today?
just to say...
I have nothing against it...
dont bother questioning me, just answer.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 04:50 am
Okay, I have to ask me, what parts of me were never inorganic?

Joe(can't think of any)Nation
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 05:06 am
bigdog279 wrote:
Someone tell me how life actually started as a single-celled organism. where did it come from?

Replicative molecules would have formed before the first cells formed. Nobody knows exactly how it happened yet. There are lots of scientific hypothesis, but nothing with overwhelming acceptance.

bigdog279 wrote:
who believes in the super-island breaking up into bits and pieces till it becomes what it is today?

I do. The idea of plate tectonics fits the evidence extremely well. Do you have some reason to doubt that plate tectonics happened?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 06:09 am
rosborne979 wrote:
Do you have some reason to doubt that plate tectonics happened?


Do you mean apart from a blind and unquestioning adherence to creationism as it has been retailed to him/her?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 06:11 am
bigdog279 wrote:
dont bother questioning me, just answer.


What makes you think you get to make up the rules? If you ask a nonsensical or opaque question, or one which makes presumptions for which you have provided no basis, you're going to be asked questions. If that's a problem for you, you don't belong in a discussion of scientific ideas.

Of course, the topic of this thread is proof for creationism. So, what proof do you have for creationism?

Don't bother questioning any of us, just answer.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 06:52 am
It appears to me that you are unaware of or unwilling to abide by reasonable terms of debate and discussion. So let's start with first principles.

Assuming for the sake of discussion and courtesy that your questions are sincere (and i assume that with a great deal of misgiving), i'll examine your debut here.

bigdog279 wrote:
If the world was created by a big explosion, everything would have been a mess.


This is what can be described as a statement from authority. That is because you don't define your terms or explain why this is so--you just make the statement, and from it you propose to derive what one assumes you assume to be reasonable questions. However, as this is a premise for subsequent questions, it is not only appropriate to question you, it is essential to establishing a basis for discussion and/or debate.

What do you mean by "the world?" By that, do you mean the cosmos, the universe? If so, you'd have been on firmer ground to have said so--as it is, your use of "the world" is vague and could be misleading. The world can mean this planet (and that is probably the most common use of the word), or it can mean everything, as in the cosmos. One assumes that you intend the latter definition, but already we are off to a bad start, because one has to make an assumption about your meaning, rather than have a clear and unambiguous basis to begin with.

What do you mean by "a mess?" Once again, one is left to assume things about your meaning. This isn't the same as a letter-bomb going off at the post office, you know.

You're off to a bad start here already because you make a statement from authority ("big explosion"="mess"), but you don't provide even a logical basis for your assumption, let alone any evidence.

You wrote:
Someone must have put everything in order.


This is a statement from authority, as well, and it is a naive and anthropocentric statement. If you place a bar magnet under a sheet of heavy paper, and shake out some iron filings onto the paper, they will align to the magnetic field and form a predictable pattern. This is not because anyone has put them "in order," it is simply a consequence of the properties of iron (which is paramagnetic).

So this statement assumes several things, and accepting it in discussion or debate is tantamount of agreeing to those assumptions. It assumes that "everything" is now "in order." It assumes that order cannot arise from circumstances or conditions, but can only arise from "someone" taking action to impose order. This is anthropocentric.

[url=http://www.answers.com/topic/anthropocentric?cat=health][b]Answers-dot-com[/b][/url] wrote:
anthropocentric adj.

1. Regarding humans as the central element of the universe.
2. Interpreting reality exclusively in terms of human values and experience.


Your remark assumes that order can only arise from the actions of a self-conscious, sentient entity, such as a human being, and in this case, the implication is that there is an anthropomophic (which means having human form) deity who has put everything in order. But you are not finished with your anthropocentric statements.

Quote:
If not, why is it that we live in the third planet, the perfect location from the sun. And why is it that we have body parts in the best place they could be? The arms are aligned, skin covers the whole body, and stuff like that...


This assumes that everything is ordered or "created" in the cosmos for the benefit of human beings--that is a classic philosophical definition of anthropocentric. It is also hopelessly naive, and "puts the cart before the horse." That we live on the third planet from our star is not evidence of grand design, or of any other species of human conceit, it is evidence that in the one, specific case of this stellar system, this third planet is able to support life forms such as we represent, and so they arose here. Mercury is too near the star, Venus is in the grip of a runaway "greenhouse" effect, and Mars is too far from the star. Nothing guaranteed that life as we know it would arise here, but it's damned sure it would not have arisen on any of the other planets of which we know.

I am making a statement from authority, too. That is that nothing guaranteed that life as we know it would arise here. (I have made other statements from authority, such as that life as we know it could not survive on Mercury, Venus or Mars, but in those cases, i don't allege that i am personally the authority from which the statement derives--for those statements, i rely on the evidence provided by astronomers and our space program.) I make the statement that nothing guaranteed that life as we know it would arise here because i know of no evidence to the contrary. The most likely argument to be advanced against that statement is the argument implicit in your questions--that there is a creator, a deity.

This implicit reference to a creator or deity is made even more clear in your subsequent question, which ends with yet another statement from authority:

Quote:
Also, how come cycles occur? The water cycle for one. Everything couldn't have been all a coincidence...


Why could not "everything" have been a coincidence? That statement from authority is tinged with an anthropocentric assumption (all things are ordered for the benefit of humanity), and it is offered without any support, neither evidence nor a logical argument. It assumes that things have been ordered for the appearance and sustenance of a life form such as human beings, rather than understanding that a life form such as human beings exists here because it is possible and plausible given the conditions which already exist.

Quote:
And just to note it, nothing among those things were Bible based...


To the extent that the bobble is about as bad a source for answering scientific questions one could find, i'd certainly agree with that statement. But any attempt on your part to claim that what you have said and what you have asked is not motivated by your personal religious prejudices would be absurdly, transparently a lie.

**************************************

So, you get asked questions because you yourself beg questions, and make assumptions and statements from authority, and to have a rational discussion, people have to ask you questions just to figure out what you mean.
0 Replies
 
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 10:47 am
bigdog279 wrote:
Someone tell me how life actually started as a single-celled organism. where did it come from?


I don't know.

bigdog279 wrote:
who believes in the super-island breaking up into bits and pieces till it becomes what it is today?


That's called plate tectonics and it's not just one continent breaking into bits, it's massive plates moving and changing shape.
0 Replies
 
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 10:47 am
bigdog279 wrote:
dont bother questioning me, just answer.


Hrm, that's a bit rude, eh? Did you read my explanation and understand it for the other stuff?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 03:07 pm
Tell me bigdog279, how does gravity work? Care to tell me that?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 10:09 pm
Setanta wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
Do you have some reason to doubt that plate tectonics happened?


Do you mean apart from a blind and unquestioning adherence to creationism as it has been retailed to him/her?

Just giving him a shovel so he can dig himself a hole.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2008 06:17 am
rosborne979 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
Do you have some reason to doubt that plate tectonics happened?


Do you mean apart from a blind and unquestioning adherence to creationism as it has been retailed to him/her?

Just giving him a shovel so he can dig himself a hole.


You are a kind and considerate man, Roswell.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:05 pm
Stop kicking that puppy! It reminds me of the Mariners games this season.

OW

OW

OW
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 05:45 am
They were that bad, huh?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 07:40 pm
OW

OW

OW
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2008 11:32 am
General Manager, Field Manager and Hitting Coach fired.

Who's next?

The fans?

Meanwhile, the puppy yelps . . . .
0 Replies
 
bigdog279
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2008 05:20 am
Ok fine. The point of the questions is that if life started in water, there would have been nothing providing Carbon Dioxide for the plants. If it was so that all land was stuck together as one, huge continent, not even Carbon Dioxide released from water (so to say... hehe...rakenrol!!!) would supply the plants.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2008 05:37 am
what if the fiest life forms were neither plants nor animals?

Do you think it would be posible to determine the types and concentrations of atmospheric gases in the ancient sediments? Do you think that science has been able to determine this?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2008 06:54 am
As ever-body with a likck of sense knows, the appearance of the eukaryotes was a plot by SATAN . . .
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2008 07:46 am
bigdog279 wrote:
Ok fine. The point of the questions is that if life started in water, there would have been nothing providing Carbon Dioxide for the plants.

If that is the case, one is left to wonder how so many different types of underwater plants can be found today. Have you ever been to a lake bigdog? Yes, some plants float or have parts that stick out of the water but many are completely submerged.

Just google "underwater plants" to find many such plants.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2008 07:53 am
bigdog - I believe all seaweed and algae is protista. If it is completely submerged, I don't think it is actually in the plant kingdom. Someone with a more concrete background in ocean biology can verify this. The ocean makes 90% of our oxygen via sea life such as kelp.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
 

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