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When does Iraq become a "Genocide"?

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candidone1
 
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:34 am
In March of 2007, the NIE claimed that Iraq, and the sectarian violence between Sunni and Shiites had elements of a civil war. The administration has been reluctant to parrot these words, in spite of the glaring obviousness of such a claim.

A civil war is a war in which parties within the same culture, society or nationality fight against each other for the control of political power. Clearly, Iraq is immersed in a civil war.

Wikipedia defines genocide as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, religious or national group"....I'm curious, at what point would the objective observer justifiably call the conflict a genocide? (I use "objective observer" becasue I am not looking for the remaining 14 Bush apologists to simply go the denial route--I would like to know whether or not the term genocide can, will or ever could apropriately be applied to Iraq if the status quo is maintained).

Is it a matter of degree or severity? Does the death toll or body count have to exceed some arbitrary minimum? At what point does something become a genocide? Have the basic criteria been met in Iraq to even apply the term properly?
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fishin
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:47 am
Re: When does Iraq become a "Genocide"?
candidone1 wrote:
Is it a matter of degree or severity? Does the death toll or body count have to exceed some arbitrary minimum? At what point does something become a genocide? Have the basic criteria been met in Iraq to even apply the term properly?


IMO, it is a completely subjective determination. Two elements that are almost always present however, are that the term only gets applied if the number of deaths is significant in proportion to the total population and if one side completely dominates the other.

No one refers to it as genocide when 200 people are killed. When you start getting up to 5-10% of an ethnic, religious, etc.. group you are getting there.

No one refers to it as genocide if opposing sides completely annihlate each other either. If there is a parity in power betwen the opposing sides it's just a war (civil or otherwise). To use genocide there seems to be a need for one side to dominate the other to a point of helplessness.

I don't see either of those conditions happening in Iraq in the short term.
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candidone1
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 11:23 am
Re: When does Iraq become a "Genocide"?
fishin wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
Is it a matter of degree or severity? Does the death toll or body count have to exceed some arbitrary minimum? At what point does something become a genocide? Have the basic criteria been met in Iraq to even apply the term properly?


IMO, it is a completely subjective determination. Two elements that are almost always present however, are that the term only gets applied if the number of deaths is significant in proportion to the total population and if one side completely dominates the other.

No one refers to it as genocide when 200 people are killed. When you start getting up to 5-10% of an ethnic, religious, etc.. group you are getting there.

No one refers to it as genocide if opposing sides completely annihlate each other either. If there is a parity in power betwen the opposing sides it's just a war (civil or otherwise). To use genocide there seems to be a need for one side to dominate the other to a point of helplessness.

I don't see either of those conditions happening in Iraq in the short term.


Thanks....it does appear that the majority of the deaths in Iraq these days are not at the hands of the Americans, they are due to the Sunni and Shiite warring factions. So as long as they are mutually battling, it remains a civil war....
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