What about incest?

No, not really. I think historically it has been taboo-ed for the reproductive issue.

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I think there are often power issues though, especially in a big brother/ little sister sort of situation.

Plus there's the problem of, what if it doesn't work out? Hard to avoid a sibling, and sad if it comes to that and a sibling is effectively lost.

I don't necessarily think it's always a problem -- fraternal twins who a) know they're just experimenting (carefully, with protection), and when they're done they're done or b) have a permanent romantic connection may be OK, in theory.

Way too many ways for the relationship to be dangerous in real life though, IMO.

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I agree with Soz-- it's pretty much of an "in theory" kind of thing. It's not that it's some kind of horrifying idea or inherently wrong, really, but in real life it's hard to believe it could ever work out to have been a healthy experience for both parties.

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Don't they have an incest pride parade in Charleston W. Virginia every year?

Or am I thinking of Eastern Kentucky?

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It was Alabama, Bear.

The only upside I see in an incestuous relationship is the gift giving on
christmas. It sure narrows it down to family only, doesn't it?

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Wow! An incestuous pride parade? Are you guys serious? No surprise it was in the mid west then.

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cyphercat wrote:

I agree with Soz-- it's pretty much of an "in theory" kind of thing. It's not that it's some kind of horrifying idea or inherently wrong, really, but in real life it's hard to believe it could ever work out to have been a healthy experience for both parties.

Yeah, I reckon you're both right. But that doesn't seem to be a reason for incest to be illegal. There are all sorts of relationships which frequently fail (e.g. long-distance, or cross-cultural), and those aren't illegal.

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I consider myself very liberal but a sexual relationship between brothers and sisters I find fairly revolting.

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Coolwhip, I think it's conditioning. We've been conditioned to think it's revolting, so it is.

However, short of having offspring, the question was is there anything really wrong with it?

I can't think of anything "wrong" with it, other than the revoltingness, which I think is just conditioning. Hence, my answer is no.

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Very true. I *know* there isn't anything wrong with it, still I'm not comfortable with it. Kinda makes you understand how homophobes feel. Puts it into perspective.

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agrote wrote:

There are all sorts of relationships which frequently fail (e.g. long-distance, or cross-cultural), and those aren't illegal.

Your comparison is preposterous. Incest cannot be legalized EVER....

Quote:

Incest is considered by many experts to be a particularly damaging form of sexual abuse because it is perpetrated by indivuals whom the victim trusts and depends upon. In addition, support can also be lacking and pressure to keep silent powerful as fear of the family breaking up can be overwhelming to other family members.

....and this is why!

SOURCE

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I thought we were talking about consenting adults. There are no victims when its consentual.

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Coolwhip wrote:

I consider myself very liberal but a sexual relationship between brothers and sisters I find fairly revolting.

I don't think emotions aren't a reliable indicator of truth. You can keep your liberalism and your gut reactions seperate. I'm strongly in favour of gay rights, but I had to turn away during the sex scene in Brokeback Mountain... it's a beautiful film, but I just couldn't watch that. I think there's something admirable about overcoming your own prejudices. If, as you say, you know that there's nothing wrong with incest despite the way you feel about it, then I think that's impressive. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't capable of putting their emotions to one side like that.

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Well that's the point, Coolwhip, I don't believe that there is ever a
consensual relationship between family members. It is either the father
or brother who force themselves on their daughter resp. sister.
Strange that you never hear of a daughter having sexual fantasies about
her father or brothers, it is pretty much the other way around.

agrote makes it seem like there could be a possibility of a incestuous
relationship, so far the statistics have proven that it isn't a mutual
sexual desire.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Quote:
Incest is considered by many experts to be a particularly damaging form of sexual abuse because it is perpetrated by indivuals whom the victim trusts and depends upon.

It sounds like this is in reference to incestuous rape, or coersive incest. I'm not defending that. Rape of any kind, and coersion of any kind, should remain unacceptable. In this thread, I am talking about consenting adults.

Quote:

...pressure to keep silent powerful as fear of the family breaking up can be overwhelming to other family members.

This is actually a good reason for us to accept incest. The pressure to keep silent comes from the taboo surrounding incest, and from the fact that it is illegal and frowned upon by many. If non-child-bearing incestuous relationships were seen as being just as ordinary as 'normal' relationships, then there would be no such pressure to keep silent.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Well that's the point, Coolwhip, I don't believe that there is ever a
consensual relationship between family members. It is either the father
or brother who force themselves on their daughter resp. sister.
Strange that you never hear of a daughter having sexual fantasies about
her father or brothers, it is pretty much the other way around.

I've heard of consenting sex between twins, or between adult brothers and sisters. Only in fiction, I must admit, but there may be some basis in reality. Woody Allen had a consentual relationship with his step-daughter, but that probably doesn't really count. I suspect that people do have consentual sex with immediate relatives (certainly with cousins and more distant relatives), but I['ll have to get back to you with some evidence of this.

Quote:

agrote makes it seem like there could be a possibility of a incestuous
relationship, so far the statistics have proven that it isn't a mutual
sexual desire.

What statistics?

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The statistics from the same source I used above.
28 % of all rapes and molestations were an intimate
and 7 % another relative. And these are only the reported cases.
The unreported cases would far exceed these numbers.

Legalizing incest would not differentiate between consensual and non-consensual, it would be considered legal, for a father or brother to
overpower their daughter/sister, believing it were consensual.

The pain from legalizing incest would be so much greater than the
pleasure only a few would benefit from. For the protection of the
greater population, incest cannot and never should be legalized.

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For the same reason that it's illegal to kill dogs here, but in certain asian countries, they slice their throats and have 'em for dinner. It's because society says so.

Also, it's icky.

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Huh?

Is it illegal now?

Marrriage is, but is consensual sex between closely related adults?

CJ's stats do not, in my mind, relate to the issue of consenting adults.

In the same vein of logic, 100% of rapes occur during sex...therefore ban sex.

Mind you, the "ick" factor is doubtless there for good reason.....genetically speaking, and child protectionally speaking.

Mice, for example, can tell a near relative from smell, and are not aroused by them them under natural circumstances......

Nonetheless, I can't see a drama, logically speaking, with truly consenting adults.

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What about incest?

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