Ghosts??? Or???

cyphercat wrote:

Bathsheba, are you going to give us updates if you have any? I didn't mean for my story to sound like I'm totally skeptical or anything, I'm personally hoping you don't find an explanation... it's much more exciting that way (and don't worry, renters will love a house with atmosphere!)

cyphercat,

The house will be rented soon. I didn't mention the possibility of unexplained noises Laughing

If she tells me she's hearing strange things I'll have to check out what it could be. She doesn't appear to be a person who would likely believe ghost stories.

No need to apologize; I didn't feel like you were skeptical. No more so than myself Cool

I'm enjoying reading the various theories. I do think there are things that can't be explained at our current level of understanding. We really can't prove or disprove the existence of other-wordly entities. Yet.

I'll keep ya posted as things....ahem.....appear.

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echi wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
In the case of ghosts we have a widely experienced phenomenon which some people explain as ghosts -- spirits of dead people remaining on earth. I am suggesting that the explanation for that phenomenon is something natural but not yet understood. What phenomenon does a concept of God explain?

Several concepts. Faith, guidance, observance, discipline, imagination, hope, and so on.
baddog-
Do you believe that God is part of nature? Or do you believe that God created nature?

Hi echi:

Both.

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farmerman wrote:

Quote:
Several concepts. Faith, guidance, observance, discipline, imagination, hope, and so on.
.. So on and so on annd so on. Nothing here is forensically valid, testable, or falsifiable. All available evidence on manifestations can be tested AGAINST standards. If they fail, then they are debunked and not valid. Thnereby honing the remaining available evidence to a very few observations.
Most Universities that still maintain parapsych depts (and yes there is an ever decreasing mass of them), try to handle it as an observational science .
Princeton still maintains the dialogues of Einstein and colleagues regarding time being place and interdimensional ytravel is time travel. Everything is in mathematical formulae and proofs that , although Ive seenthem preserved on newsprint at the Sarnoff Center , I freely admit to having a deep non-understanding of these sets of symbolic logic.

Fm: Is your claim that for anything to exist - it must be forensically valid, testable, or falsifiable?

And I do not completely understand the process of your points. They seem contradictory to me, so please help me understand better.

You say: "All available evidence on manifestations can be tested AGAINST standards. If they fail, then they are debunked and not valid. Thnereby honing the remaining available evidence to a very few observations."

Then you say: "Most Universities that still maintain parapsych depts (and yes there is an ever decreasing mass of them), try to handle it as an observational science."

What STANDARDS are utilized for testing ghosts? Has the testing for ghosts failed or passed? [In other words - has it been scientifically proven that ghosts exist?] If not - then why would "most universities still maintain ghost departments if there is no proof of existence? Many feel it is nonsensical to continue pouring money and other resources into a dead-end street. Why would most universities? (No wonder tuition is so high!)

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Ghostly updates
Since the house is in a historic area of town I asked the historical society what the history of the place was. It was built in 1913-- but aside from that I spoke to the grandson of the original owner.

He said that his grandmother had a baby girl who died in that house......now I AM creeped out! I didn't mention to him anything about hearing footsteps upstairs when no one was there.

Renters move in this week. Things might get interesting.....

Bathsheba

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Wow, interesting topic, must have missed this originally? Confused

The 1st thing I thought was, what would a person, devoid of a ghost concept, make of the sounds? Nice discussion anyway. Bathsheba, I hope the renters move-in goes well!

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Thanks, Ashers.

I hope it goes well, too. We shall see. Cool

Bathsheba

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The ghost story continues
Just another little curious follow up:

Was recently talking to an electrician friend who did some work on the house. He was alone, (as was my husband when he heard footsteps overhead), in the house and came upstairs. He said he felt a presence in the kitchen (this guy is not given to ghostie stories) and actually got tears in his eyes. He couldn't explain it and didn't say anything to us about it.

He said he would never have mentioned it if we hadn't talked to him about hearing footsteps. He was pretty incredulous that we had heard something and he had 'felt' something.

He did say he didn't feel the presence was malignant or anything like that.

Weirder and weirder..... Shocked

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interesting! Thanks for keeping us posted... Are the renters in now?

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rosborne979 wrote:

Hi FM, but you don't know that it's something 'paranormal', all you know is that it's something unknown or unidentified.

Why would you draw conclusion that 'unknown' = 'paranormal'. Isn't it more probably that the causes of the unknown are of a more banal variety.

Since you don't know the cause, how can you assign probabilities? On what basis would you be able to say, "the causes of the unknown are of a more banal variety"? If you don't know the cause of something, the honest response is to say that you don't know and leave it at that.

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IFeelFree wrote:

Since you don't know the cause, how can you assign probabilities? On what basis would you be able to say, "the causes of the unknown are of a more banal variety"? If you don't know the cause of something, the honest response is to say that you don't know and leave it at that.

Nonsense.

How a paper cup got left on a table may be unknown to me, but there is still a higher probability that someone left it there, than that Bugs Bunny came to life and put it there.

Likewise, any time we have a choice of explaining the unknown with Natural vs Supernatural explanations, the natural explanation is always a higher probability.

Just because something is unknown doesn't mean that all possible explanations are equally likely.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Just because something is unknown doesn't mean that all possible explanations are equally likely.

Actually, that's what the word "unknown" means. You don't know. As soon as you speculate on causes, you are introducing your own past experience as a guide. Unless you have past experience with paranormal phenomena, on what basis can you speculate that the explanation is "banal"?

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as an owner of a house thats over 110 years old I here odd things all the time Smile

part of it is the creaks and groans of an old house with old bones... part of it is also my stupid cats who seem to think its funny to open kitchen cabinet doors in the middle of the night so when I go downstairs in the morning I run into them ....

if you are concerned though I would check to see if there is any paranormal research groups in your area that can perform an investigation Smile

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cyphercat wrote:

interesting! Thanks for keeping us posted... Are the renters in now?

Yes, they just moved in last week. I'll keep ya posted --and I sincerely hope there is nada to report......... Smile

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What about an old radio changing stations and seeing the dial turn right in front of you?

This happened when I was a kid. You know what I did?

I went running and screaming for my mom that's what! lol

If I spoke of other occurences, you'd think I was a liar or a loon.

These experiences seem to stay with me. Is that normal?

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Bartikus wrote:

What about an old radio changing stations and seeing the dial turn right in front of you?

This happened when I was a kid. You know what I did?

I went running and screaming for my mom that's what! lol

If I spoke of other occurences, you'd think I was a liar or a loon.

These experiences seem to stay with me. Is that normal?

Hi bartikus,

Weird experience you had as a kid. Was that the only time it happened?

No, I wouldn't think you were a liar or a loon if you told me about the other occurrences that happened. None can be proven OR disproven, they just are. Sure, it's normal to remember weird things! They are more memorable than everyday occurrences, so why not?

Bathsheba

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Ghosts??? Or???

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