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Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

 
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 05:36 am
Neo made the statement that Jesus was the perfect man, the man to replace Adam.

But was Jesus perfect?

What is perfect?

Is invading the temple and beating people because you don't like the way they practice their religion perfect?

Is intolerance and the use of violence perfect?

Is living a communistic lifestyle perfect?

Is having a bad temper perfect?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 05:37 am
xingu wrote:
If God wrote the Bible than he's the one playing games.

Look at all those people out there who think they know what he's saying.
Well I've long thought God must have a particularly strange sense of humour. To tell at least 3 sets of people that they are the special ones, wait till they start arguing and fighting....and lets them get on with it.

Perhaps he's a betting man.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 05:44 am
I can't see any God who demands strict obedience and believes in vengeance as being a real God. A manufactured God made in the image of his creators, yes, but not real. The only place that God is real is in the minds of the believers.

Zeus was a real God, in the minds of his believers. But once Zeus believers vanished so did Zeus. The same with the God of the Bible or the Koran.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 06:42 am
xingu wrote:
The only place that God is real is in the minds of the believers.
So he she or it is real for them? Therefore God exists because he she or it exists in the minds of believers. Therefore God is real and exists.

Just playing devils advocate.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 08:09 am
mesquite wrote:
RexRed wrote:
I see no clear "Biblical" directive to take slaves other than to civilize them and eventually grant them their freedom.



in Leviticus 25:44-46 Moses quoting God wrote:
45 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

46 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property.

47 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.


Seems quite clear to me. Forever does not mean eventual freedom.

in Numbers 31:17-18 Moses quoting God wrote:
"17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.

"18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.


So you think that "civilizing" is what was in store for those children?


God does not possess people...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 08:16 am
xingu wrote:
Neo made the statement that Jesus was the perfect man, the man to replace Adam.

But was Jesus perfect?

What is perfect?

Is invading the temple and beating people because you don't like the way they practice their religion perfect?

Is intolerance and the use of violence perfect?

Is living a communistic lifestyle perfect?

Is having a bad temper perfect?


God is the judge of perfection... Jesus was apparently not perfect in man's eyes (or your own) that is why they crucified him... But he was chosen perfect in God's eyes... So do we live our lives to please man or God?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 08:36 am
How can one please a God that is so fickle. And why do we have to please God? Are we his slaves? Is that what life is all about; our only purpose for existance is to give pleasure to God?

If that is so then you have given us an excellent reason to see the God in the Bible as a false God; a creature made by man.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 10:58 am
xingu wrote:
Neo made the statement that Jesus was the perfect man, the man to . . . Is invading the temple and beating people because you don't like the way they practice their religion perfect?

Is intolerance and the use of violence perfect?

Is living a communistic lifestyle perfect?

Is having a bad temper perfect?


This has to be one of the most ridiculous criticisms of Jesus' activities I have ever heard.

The money changers Jesus drove out of the temple were extorting money from those Jews who had to travel long distances for temple worship. They ripped them off in the exchange rate, then ripped them again in the price charged for animals to sacrifice. The profits did not go to the temple. They went into the money changers' pockets.

He was supposed to be his father's chief representative. What would you expect him to do?

A bad temper? You're joking, right?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 11:05 am
xingu wrote:
How can one please a God that is so fickle. And why do we have to please God? Are we his slaves? Is that what life is all about; our only purpose for existance is to give pleasure to God?

If that is so then you have given us an excellent reason to see the God in the Bible as a false God; a creature made by man.
Fickle is your judgement based on an incomplete understanding.

However it certainly seems true that God would not have created us if it did not please him to do so. Can you think of a better reason? And, if we find life to be, for the most part, pleasurable, should we not be willing to display some gratitude? And if we discern there may be more to the gift of life than what we have seen, would it not be prudent to enquire?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 11:10 am
neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
Neo made the statement that Jesus was the perfect man, the man to . . . Is invading the temple and beating people because you don't like the way they practice their religion perfect?

Is intolerance and the use of violence perfect?

Is living a communistic lifestyle perfect?

Is having a bad temper perfect?


This has to be one of the most ridiculous criticisms of Jesus' activities I have ever heard.

The money changers Jesus drove out of the temple were extorting money from those Jews who had to travel long distances for temple worship. They ripped them off in the exchange rate, then ripped them again in the price charged for animals to sacrifice. The profits did not go to the temple. They went into the money changers' pockets.

He was supposed to be his father's chief representative. What would you expect him to do?

A bad temper? You're joking, right?


How do you know they were ripping off the people? Does it say so in the Bible? How do you know what the financial details of this event was? The Bible doesn't go into detail so anything you say is speculation.

Jesus wasn't angry for any ripoff. He didn't believe in animal sacrifice. So what if they sacrificed animals. They had been doing it for hundreds of years. Now comes along some joker who claims he speaks for God and tells them to stop. They ignore him so he takes his band of thugs and drives them out of the Temple.

He was a threat to the peace and stability of the country. He deserved to be executed.

His execution had nothing to do with saving mankind in the afterworld. It had to do with a Jew breaking the laws and being a threat to the peace. All this nonsense about being a God and saving mankind came well after his death.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 12:18 pm
neologist wrote:
A bad temper? You're joking, right?


Mark 11:12-14, 20-21
Quote:
12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it...

20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.


http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Mark/fig-tree-withered.jpg

Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 12:34 pm
mesquite, Good find! Those men who wrote the bible lacked scientific/agricultural knowledge even at the very basic level of the seasons. God surely would not make that kind of mistake.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:03 pm
mesquite wrote:
. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:08 pm
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)


Fail to do Gods will. So we're his slaves. Do his will or die.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:11 pm
xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
Neo made the statement that Jesus was the perfect man, the man to . . . Is invading the temple and beating people because you don't like the way they practice their religion perfect?

Is intolerance and the use of violence perfect?

Is living a communistic lifestyle perfect?

Is having a bad temper perfect?


This has to be one of the most ridiculous criticisms of Jesus' activities I have ever heard.

The money changers Jesus drove out of the temple were extorting money from those Jews who had to travel long distances for temple worship. They ripped them off in the exchange rate, then ripped them again in the price charged for animals to sacrifice. The profits did not go to the temple. They went into the money changers' pockets.

He was supposed to be his father's chief representative. What would you expect him to do?

A bad temper? You're joking, right?
. . . Jesus wasn't angry for any ripoff. He didn't believe in animal sacrifice. So what if they sacrificed animals. They had been doing it for hundreds of years. Now comes along some joker who claims he speaks for God and tells them to stop. They ignore him so he takes his band of thugs and drives them out of the Temple. . . .
Jesus observed the Mosaic Laws including those of animal sacrifice, the practice of which prefigured his sacrifice. He never rebuked the Jewish leaders for this, although he had much to say about the Jewish leaders. The temple was for religious purposes and not for financial transactions. So, at the very least, Jesus had a cause for that reason alone.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:15 pm
xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)


Fail to do Gods will. So we're his slaves. Do his will or die.
What quarrel do you have with this command? "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28)

Would it place any burden upon you? Suppose there were only one additional: To not eat the fruit of a certain tree. Would that be OK?

Well, were it not for the intervention of a certain rebel, this would be the only obligation of man.

Not a bad form of slavery, IMHO.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:18 pm
"Do not eat from the fruit of a certain tree" is about as stupid as they come, knowing that humans would eventually enjoy eating most of the non-poisonous fruits this world has to offer.

Is god so simple-minded that he must command man not to eat fruit? What a dork!
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:22 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"Do not eat from the fruit of a certain tree" is about as stupid as they come, knowing that humans would eventually enjoy eating most of the non-poisonous fruits this world has to offer.

Is god so simple-minded that he must command man not to eat fruit? What a dork!
Except for the fact that the tree represented their acquiescence to God's standards.

It wasn't anything about dietary choice, you know.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 01:27 pm
neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)


Fail to do Gods will. So we're his slaves. Do his will or die.
What quarrel do you have with this command? "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28)

Would it place any burden upon you? Suppose there were only one additional: To not eat the fruit of a certain tree. Would that be OK?

Well, were it not for the intervention of a certain rebel, this would be the only obligation of man.

Not a bad form of slavery, IMHO.


Changing the subject, hey Neo?

We talked about being a slave to God; obey me or die and you change the subject and up some unrelated Genesis crap.

What does Genesis 1:28 have to do with Matthew 7 21-23?

What problem do you and your God have with people using their free will and believing anything they choose without being punished? You don't like freedom of religion?

Your God doesn't.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 02:54 pm
xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?
Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)


Fail to do Gods will. So we're his slaves. Do his will or die.
What quarrel do you have with this command? "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28)

Would it place any burden upon you? Suppose there were only one additional: To not eat the fruit of a certain tree. Would that be OK?

Well, were it not for the intervention of a certain rebel, this would be the only obligation of man.

Not a bad form of slavery, IMHO.


Changing the subject, hey Neo?

We talked about being a slave to God; obey me or die and you change the subject and up some unrelated Genesis crap.

What does Genesis 1:28 have to do with Matthew 7 21-23?

What problem do you and your God have with people using their free will and believing anything they choose without being punished? You don't like freedom of religion?

Your God doesn't.
Actually, you are right in your last statement. There two Gods mentioned in the bible. One gives complete freedom of religion and the other does not. Take your pick, but be aware that it is not a matter of punishment, but of consequence.

Also, there is a definite relationship between the Genesis account and the statements of Jesus recorded in Matthew. If you had read the bible, you might know that.
0 Replies
 
 

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