Obama '08?

Tags: Obama, Politics, Democrats, Elections, President Obama
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What new system? How are we to even know what it is going to be? I have no trust whatsoever of Democrat bills, after all I already know they want single payer as the eventual goal, so I am not supporting any of their legislation, simply because their will be triggers and nuances hidden in whatever bill to lead to more government control over my health care. They do not agree philosophically, they have no faith in free markets, so I have no faith in anything they are doing, absolutely none.

2 Replies

@FreeDuck,

That's what happens when they post from misinformation and not understanding the "total picture." They end up contradicting themselves.

okie still doesn't understand that the insurance company controls the purse string; what they charge and what they will pay. It's really funny!

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

What new system? How are we to even know what it is going to be?

Perhaps you could try reading the legislation, or one of the many available analysis of it.

Quote:

I have no trust whatsoever of Democrat bills, after all I already know they want single payer as the eventual goal, so I am not supporting any of their legislation, simply because their will be triggers and nuances hidden in whatever bill to lead to more government control over my health care.

This is a Slippery Slope argument, a logical fallacy.

Quote:

They do not agree philosophically, they have no faith in free markets, so I have no faith in anything they are doing, absolutely none.

Okie: who gives a shit what you put faith in. I certainly don't. What I do care about is the fact that you are unable to actually find anything in any of these bills which does what you claim it will; you are doing nothing but fearmongering. That isn't a convincing argument.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

What new system? How are we to even know what it is going to be? I have no trust whatsoever of Democrat bills, after all I already know they want single payer as the eventual goal, so I am not supporting any of their legislation, simply because their will be triggers and nuances hidden in whatever bill to lead to more government control over my health care. They do not agree philosophically, they have no faith in free markets, so I have no faith in anything they are doing, absolutely none.

Fair enough. But given that you're pretty much just announcing your opposition to anything this Congress comes up with, why even bothering entering the debate? If it comes down to philosophical differences, well, that's where elections come into play. Most Americans want this fixed and don't believe the free market (which, btw, doesn't currently exist) has the capacity to do so.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

Quote:

why even bothering entering the debate?

because being in opposition is what gives meaning to Okie's life. Without it Okie loses his identity. He is like the recovered catholic turned baptist, he can't simply be a baptist, he must devote his life to being an anti-catholic.

3 Replies

@dyslexia,

But he doesn't need a pray partner, like others!

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

That's a bit unfair dys. I'll agree okie is a bit extreme at times but his essential position is held by many people. He doesn't trust big government and there are ample reasons why he shouldn't if he values freedom most.

It is a bit of a stretch to assert that he is being in opposition for being in opposition's sake rather than in opposition to a threat he perceives. In fact, your post gives some credence to his fears about how liberals use words and how they might do if given more power. It was a smear really.

2 Replies

@dyslexia,

I think a good name for okie would be "okieanti."

0 Replies

@old europe,

georgeob1 wrote:

Why are you so interested in the details of our health care system?

old europe wrote:

Off the top of my head: I'm spending a lot of time every year in the United States, I have a lot of friends in the States, I'm interested in political topics, I have family members working in various health care professions, and I find the challenges that countries face when dealing with the issue of whether to or how to provide universal health care interesting enough to be interested in the solutions that other countries are discussing or trying to implement.

Why do you ask? Not trying to avoid discussion by pointing out that I'm not a US citizen, are you?

I'm not trying to avid anything at all. That you are not a U.S. citizen was implicit in my question.

However, thanks for the answer. What have your continued investigations of the systems in (say) Brazil or Russia revealed to you?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I'm not trying to avid anything at all.

Well, in spite of that, you have just avoided all the other points in my post.

georgeob1 wrote:

What have your continued investigations of the systems in (say) Brazil or Russia revealed to you?

Why are you so interested in the details of the Brazilian or Russian health care system?

1 Reply

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I'm not trying to avid anything at all.

Well, in spite of that, you have just avoided all the other points in my post.

I wasn't interested in the other points in your post.

georgeob1 wrote:

What have your continued investigations of the systems in (say) Brazil or Russia revealed to you?

old europe wrote:

Why are you so interested in the details of the Brazilian or Russian health care system?

I have no special interest in either. Instead I was curious about what your far-ranging interests have taught you.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

I'm not particularly interested in the Brazilian or Russian health care system either. I guess that leaves us with nothing to talk about.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

That's a bit unfair dys. I'll agree okie is a bit extreme at times but his essential position is held by many people. He doesn't trust big government and there are ample reasons why he shouldn't if he values freedom most.

It is a bit of a stretch to assert that he is being in opposition for being in opposition's sake rather than in opposition to a threat he perceives. In fact, your post gives some credence to his fears about how liberals use words and how they might do if given more power. It was a smear really.

Thanks for the support, spendi. I have no idea what dys said, and frankly don't care anymore. You are correct, a very large portion of Americans agree with my position here. And to be honest, the issue is really Obama, who in my opinion has no credibility on much of anything, he has no accomplishments deserving to even be elected president in the first place. He made a speech, thats it, and the press decided he was their man, and here we are in this pickle now. We now have a bunch of radicals trying to run this country, and I aint goin along with much of anything they try, because there is no trust.

2 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

I'm not particularly interested in the Brazilian or Russian health care system either.

QED

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

We now have a bunch of radicals trying to run this country ...

Lead by a "RUTHLESS DICTATOR", I suppose.

0 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

You are correct, a very large portion of Americans agree with my position here.

A large proportion perhaps, but not majorities. And that's what matters in our society. The fact that you descendants of Borderers can't seem to agree with any progress at all, has never held the rest of us back for long - and won't in this case, either.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

A large proportion perhaps, but not majorities. And that's what matters in our society. The fact that you descendants of Borderers can't seem to agree with any progress at all, has never held the rest of us back for long - and won't in this case, either.

Cycloptichorn

Do you have proof that it is not a majority? It appears to me that the public is quite divided on this issue and that question is far from clear either way.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

A large proportion perhaps, but not majorities. And that's what matters in our society. The fact that you descendants of Borderers can't seem to agree with any progress at all, has never held the rest of us back for long - and won't in this case, either.

Cycloptichorn

Do you have proof that it is not a majority? It appears to me that the public is quite divided on this issue and that question is far from clear either way.

Polling evidence shows that majorities favor health care reform, including a Public Option, so yeah; I'd say so. Not the strongest majorities, for sure; but enough to conclusively disprove your and Okie's hypothesis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/13/AR2009091302962.html

Most doctors favor a public option -

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jZF2CT7u4sNJQcE_GnFXHJDWyEZg

You seem to have missed the moment when momentum began to swing back the other way, George. Perhaps you were busy that day. But it's looking increasingly like the Public Option will be included in a bill passed this year.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Have you ever heard of the tyranny of a majority? Since when are we Americans supposed to give up our rights because the majority says so? When did that happen? Since when can a majority tell me I have to buy a certain kind of product or service that I use personally? Are we now going to be told tomorrow that the government is going to tell us what kind of food we can buy too? Then what kind of car, then what?

Besides, I think a majority of likely voters oppose Obama's health care.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Have you ever heard of the tyranny of a majority?

We just had eight years of that, didn't we? Oh wait, that was the tyranny of a major douche bag. My mistake.

okie wrote:

Since when are we Americans supposed to give up our rights because the majority says so?

Ask the NSA.

okie wrote:

When did that happen?

Ask Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

okie wrote:

Since when can a majority tell me I have to buy a certain kind of product or service that I use personally?

I'm not sure, but probably very soon after the invention of car insurance. Ever try to get a car and not get it insured?

okie wrote:

Are we now going to be told tomorrow that we the government is going to tell us what kind of food we can buy too?

Yes. In fact, the government has just issued an alert regarding this. From now on, everyone is supposed to eat as much dog poo as possible. Quick, run to the nearest dog's asshole you can find and start gulping it down, before they arrest you!

1 Reply

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Obama '08?

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