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My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter?

 
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 01:07 am
Does "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" refer to "My feeling (that I am a Christian) leads me to realize that my Lord and Savior is a fighter"?

Context:

*And Hitler's atheism seems to have been seriously exaggerated:

My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison___as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

Hitler said this in a speech on April 12, 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-
August 1939. Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20. Oxford University Press, 1942).

-Sam Harris Letter to a Christian Nation
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 1,230 • Replies: 18
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 06:34 am
@oristarA,
Never thought of Hitler as an atheist.
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  0  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 08:51 am
@oristarA,
Hitler in his writings referred frequently to his Christian (Catholic) beliefs. His anti-Semitism may have had its roots in it, even though he himself had distant Jewish roots and was once deeply in love with a Jewish lady.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 09:08 am
@Paaskynen,
Paaskynen wrote:

Hitler in his writings referred frequently to his Christian (Catholic) beliefs. His anti-Semitism may have had its roots in it, even though he himself had distant Jewish roots and was once deeply in love with a Jewish lady.


Would you like to offer a link to his writings on his Christian beliefs?
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 09:09 am
@oristarA,

The grammatical question remains unsolved:

Does "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" refer to "My feeling (that I am a Christian) leads me to realize that my Lord and Savior is a fighter"?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2015 06:20 pm
@oristarA,
Mark: Forgotten Thread (7)
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 10:33 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:


The grammatical question remains unsolved:

Does "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" refer to "My feeling (that I am a Christian) leads me to realize that my Lord and Savior is a fighter"?


Who would like to answer this question?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 10:54 am
@oristarA,
Three things...

1) This is almost certainly translated to English from German... meaning that grammatical nuance is probably meaningless.

2) I think that the "as a Christian" works as a parenthetical aside. The implication is that any Christian would feel the same.

3) Hitler was a propagandist and a politician (as well as being one of the most evil men in history). Anything that he says about religion should be taken with a grain of salt. He was saying what he said to get people to follow him (not because he actually believe it).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 11:12 am
@Paaskynen,
Paaskynen wrote:
Hitler in his writings referred frequently to his Christian (Catholic) beliefs. His anti-Semitism may have had its roots in it, even though he himself had distant Jewish roots and was once deeply in love with a Jewish lady.
Hitler referred here to passages in Luther's book "Von den Juden und ihren Lügen". And Luther got it from Luke [Luke 19:41-48] (source: Günter Brakelmann: Evangelische Kirche im Entscheidungsjahr 1933/1934: der Weg nach Barmen. Ein Arbeitsbuch. Berlin [u.a.]: Münster, LIT, 2010.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 11:24 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
2) I think that the "as a Christian" works as a parenthetical aside. The implication is that any Christian would feel the same.
Actually he said: "Mein christliches Gefühl weist mich in meinem Kampfe hin auf meinen Herrn und Heiland als Kämpfer." My Christian feelings ... would be the literal translation.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 11:49 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Three things...

1) This is almost certainly translated to English from German... meaning that grammatical nuance is probably meaningless.

2) I think that the "as a Christian" works as a parenthetical aside. The implication is that any Christian would feel the same.

3) Hitler was a propagandist and a politician (as well as being one of the most evil men in history). Anything that he says about religion should be taken with a grain of salt. He was saying what he said to get people to follow him (not because he actually believe it).



Who's "fighter" in his speaking? Jesus?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 12:01 pm
@oristarA,
The phrase is a dangling participle... it could point to either the speaker or to Jesus. It is poorly written (and remember that this was translated from German).

It seems to me from context that it refers to Jesus.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 12:08 pm
@maxdancona,
The (full) translation would be: "... points in my fight to my Lord and Saviour as fighter."
I don't know, why "my fight" has been left out in the translation and the article "a" has been added.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 12:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The (full) translation would be: "... points in my fight to my Lord and Saviour as fighter."
I don't know, why "my fight" has been left out in the translation and the article "a" has been added.


Good point.
0 Replies
 
layman
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 01:03 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." Does "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" refer to "My feeling (that I am a Christian) leads me to realize that my Lord and Savior is a fighter"?


I think more than one thing is being suggested here, Oris. (1) My Lord was (is) a fighter, and therefore (2) I should also be.

Being a Christian inspires him to emulate Christ. This "points the way" for him to be a fighter too. If he were not a Christian then he wouldn't bother examining what Christ did, so being a Christian leads him to see that Christ is a fighter.

But, to answer your question directly, yeah, "as" means "is," as it pertains to Christ. It also dictates in what form he will approach the teachings of Christ. He is pointed to them "as" (in the form of) a fighter
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 01:39 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
I think more than one thing is being suggested here, Oris. (1) My Lord was (is) a fighter, and therefore (2) I should also be.

Being a Christian inspires him to emulate Christ. This "points the way" for him to be a fighter too. If he were not a Christian then he wouldn't bother examining what Christ did, so being a Christian leads him to see that Christ is a fighter.

But, to answer your question directly, yeah, "as" means "is," as it pertains to Christ. It also dictates in what form he will approach the teachings of Christ. He is pointed to them "as" (in the form of) a fighter
You can suggest a lot, but since the (translated) quote refers to Hitler's speech, it is not what he said. He explained it in the following sentences (following to the above quoted sentence):
"Es weist mich hin auf den Mann, der einst einsam, nur von wenigen Anhängern umgeben, diese Juden erkannte und zum Kampf gegen sie aufrief, und der, wahrhaftiger Gott, nicht der Größte war als Dulder, sondern der Größte als Streiter: In grenzenloser Liebe lese ich als Christ und Mensch die Stelle durch, die uns verkündet, wie der Herr sich endlich aufraffte und zur Peitsche griff, um die Wucherer, das Nattern- und Otterngezücht, hinauszutreiben aus dem Tempel." (Summary: he refers to Jesus as a fighter against the Jews. And nearly verbatim quotes Luther with the temple episode.

Hitler wrote in the "Connewitzer Gemeindebote" (Evangelical Monthly News for the Connewitz) that the temple episode was the most he liked about what Luther wrote anf that it was he favourite part of the New Testament - this was published on "Jews Sunday" 1934, 10th Sunday after Trinitas). [Source: Connewitzer Gemeindebote, Nr. 2, 1934, Evangelisch-lutherisches Monatsblatt (Sammlung Funke) ]
layman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 03:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
You can suggest a lot, but since the (translated) quote refers to Hitler's speech, it is not what he said.


I'm only going by the translated version and what meaning is suggested by it. Reading the entire passage conveys that Hitler thought he derived guidance in how to act from his interpretation of Jesus. He now has a "duty." The last sentence here is:

Quote:
..as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people
.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 08:46 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." Does "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" refer to "My feeling (that I am a Christian) leads me to realize that my Lord and Savior is a fighter"?


I think more than one thing is being suggested here, Oris. (1) My Lord was (is) a fighter, and therefore (2) I should also be.

Being a Christian inspires him to emulate Christ. This "points the way" for him to be a fighter too. If he were not a Christian then he wouldn't bother examining what Christ did, so being a Christian leads him to see that Christ is a fighter.

But, to answer your question directly, yeah, "as" means "is," as it pertains to Christ. It also dictates in what form he will approach the teachings of Christ. He is pointed to them "as" (in the form of) a fighter


Excellent!
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 08:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

layman wrote:
I think more than one thing is being suggested here, Oris. (1) My Lord was (is) a fighter, and therefore (2) I should also be.

Being a Christian inspires him to emulate Christ. This "points the way" for him to be a fighter too. If he were not a Christian then he wouldn't bother examining what Christ did, so being a Christian leads him to see that Christ is a fighter.

But, to answer your question directly, yeah, "as" means "is," as it pertains to Christ. It also dictates in what form he will approach the teachings of Christ. He is pointed to them "as" (in the form of) a fighter
You can suggest a lot, but since the (translated) quote refers to Hitler's speech, it is not what he said. He explained it in the following sentences (following to the above quoted sentence):
"Es weist mich hin auf den Mann, der einst einsam, nur von wenigen Anhängern umgeben, diese Juden erkannte und zum Kampf gegen sie aufrief, und der, wahrhaftiger Gott, nicht der Größte war als Dulder, sondern der Größte als Streiter: In grenzenloser Liebe lese ich als Christ und Mensch die Stelle durch, die uns verkündet, wie der Herr sich endlich aufraffte und zur Peitsche griff, um die Wucherer, das Nattern- und Otterngezücht, hinauszutreiben aus dem Tempel." (Summary: he refers to Jesus as a fighter against the Jews. And nearly verbatim quotes Luther with the temple episode.

Hitler wrote in the "Connewitzer Gemeindebote" (Evangelical Monthly News for the Connewitz) that the temple episode was the most he liked about what Luther wrote anf that it was he favourite part of the New Testament - this was published on "Jews Sunday" 1934, 10th Sunday after Trinitas). [Source: Connewitzer Gemeindebote, Nr. 2, 1934, Evangelisch-lutherisches Monatsblatt (Sammlung Funke) ]


Cool.
0 Replies
 
 

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