58
   

Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 04:54 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Actually, no. But I doubt you know how to tell the difference between subjective and objective.
vikorr
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 04:55 pm
@parados,
Quote:
It only shows you are the one that is being lazy since you can't provide any objective standard.
Drunk And twice now I've said - I'm happy for you to apply your own standard, and come to your own conclusion...so long as you educate yourself on the violence in Islams name, and willingly discuss that vs the religion...which you still can't bring yourself to do Rolling Eyes
parados
 
  3  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 04:55 pm
@vikorr,
The question remains what is the standard by which you judge all religions. It should be a standard that can be applied to every religion with objective tests that don't rely on anecdotal evidence.
vikorr
 
  0  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 04:57 pm
@parados,
and still not willing to educate yourself, admit the evidence, nor discuss the evidence

Your credibility on this topic is shot.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 04:57 pm
@vikorr,
Your standard is one of subjective bias.

Mine is when 90% or more of a religion's adherents do not commit violent acts then one can't blame the religion for minority that do act in that fashion. If it was the religion then one would expect a larger minority or a majority to act violent.
vikorr
 
  0  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:03 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Mine is when 90% or more of a religion's adherents do not commit violent acts
10% of 1 billion, is 100,000,000

For a poster who consistently cannot bring themselves to:
- educate themself on the topic they are defending; nor
- discuss any evidence
Your opinion here is currently meaningless. Educate yourself on the topic, put some open mindedness into your posts...and your opinion will gain weight.
One Eyed Mind
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:05 pm
@parados,
Science, Truth, Reason, Analysis, Evolution, Honesty, Integrity, Self-Humility, Intelligence, Argument, Genius, Reality, Making a Name for Yourself, Transcendence, Growth, Change, Principle, Life, The Universe's Experience < (objective) / (subjective) > Religion, Opinion, Feeling, Forethought, Reaction, ANALysis, Stasis, Dishonest, Accusation, Name Calling, Emotion, Perspective, Fantasy, Lies and "Our" Experience.
vikorr
 
  0  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:08 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One eyed, all he is currently trying to do (and has been doing for what, 5 pages now) is trying to avoid discussing the evidence. He keeps changing his mind on his reason for ignoring the evidence...and utilising different tactics...but it all has the same outcome...he won't discuss the evidence.
0 Replies
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:09 pm
@parados,
Is that your argument?

Not everyone is going to kill. They do other things that are spiteful and evil on a different scale in a different form - a.k.a ignoring those who do kill and torture; those who threaten your life with eternal hell and bribing you with eternal salvation; those who are forced [everyone on that land] (I believe it's called apostasy), to lead the extremist's example and those who choose to stay in that kind of world, instead of wanting to leave that world.

They may not be actual killers, but they are killers of freedom, intelligence, growth and the evolution of humanity.

The people on that land is as dreadfully disturbing as religious adults filling our children with their bullshit.

They are not people. They are viruses.

The "Islamists" that live the world of an intellect and a human being aren't even "Islamic" they quit being "Islamic" to become "human". You can't be both at the same time - the practices are built to REPRESS YOUR HUMANITY.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:41 pm
@vikorr,
Yes, and?

There are over 1 billion Muslims. Muslims are the majority in 49 countries. The US has decent relations with most of those countries and we allow their citizens to travel to the US. Hardly evidence of non peaceful Muslim nations.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Over 40% of Muslims live in 4 countries; India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia. Those 4 countries have more Muslims than all the Middle East and Africa combined. Pakistan's Muslim population is 96% and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Hardly a threat to the US in spite of your argument about Islam.

Your argument about Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood is a little odd since the Muslim Brotherhood got much less than 50% of the vote and when removed from office, the country is still run by Muslims since Egypt is 94% Muslim.

The number of Muslim Jihadists are much less than 10% of the religion. It is less than 5%. Why don't you provide us with a number of how many jihadists there are in Islam today and then we can examine that.
One Eyed Mind
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:43 pm
@parados,
What part of "APOSTASY", do you not comprehend, Parody?

The people on that land are forced into it. You are severely punished or put to death if you DON'T.

They have their own "we are loving human beings - ONLY IF YOU OBEY US" DOGMA.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 05:53 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Over 40% of Muslims live in 4 countries; India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia. Those 4 countries have more Muslims than all the Middle East and Africa combined. Pakistan's Muslim population is 96% and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Hardly a threat to the US in spite of your argument about Islam.

Pakistan being the country that hide Osama and also is the one which is responsible for all or almost all of the nuclear proliferation which has taken place over the last 30 years. But they are not a threat. Drunk
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 06:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
When Afghanistan unraveled we got 9/11

When Somalia unraveled we got ocean piracy.

When the Soviet Union unraveled we got Putin.

Pakistan is unraveling. It is very certainly a threat to the USA.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Fri 24 Oct, 2014 07:35 pm
@parados,
Quote:
The number of Muslim Jihadists are much less than 10% of the religion. It is less than 5%. Why don't you provide us with a number of how many jihadists there are in Islam today and then we can examine that.


You should have a source that proves what you say. Where is it?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 12:35 pm
Quote:
Actually al-Taqiyya and Kitman are not explicitly introduced in the Quran. It is based on conclusions Islamic scholars have made from things said and done about (dishonest) planning or cheating, honesty, breaking of oaths (introduced in the Quran), etc. in the book and in Hadiths. See the verses below.

The Quran and Islam tell that in principle you should be honest. But in many cases where dishonesty will give a better result, you are permitted to lie (Al-Taqiyya, Kitman) and even to make false oaths or to break oaths you have made (2/225a, 5/89a+b, 13/42, 27/50 and some more)). In some cases Allah will say it is ok because it is a minor thing or because you did not really mean your oath, and in other cases he will say; "ok if you pay me some money or give me a gift for expiation afterward". And then in some cases it is not only permitted, but obligatory to use it if necessary: To defend or promote Islam.

Al-Taqiyya and Kitman can be used at least in these cases (for broken oaths there are given no real limitations if the broken oath will give a better result. By implication this also goes for ordinary promises, as an oath is something stronger than a normal promise):

To save your or others' health or life.
To get out of a tight spot or a dangerous problem.
To make peace in a family.
When it will give a better result than honesty or honoring one's oath.
To cheat women (should be remembered by girls with Muslim boyfriends wanting sex - or wanting a marriage to get residence permit in a rich country.)
To deceive opponents/enemies.
To betray enemies.
To secure one's money (very clear from Hadiths).
To defend Islam. (Compulsory if necessary to succeed.)
To promote Islam. (Compulsory if necessary to succeed.)


Where is the basis for any trust in what devout Muslims say? This is what Islam gives the world to deal with?

Parados any tips on dealing with liars, being one yourself.

http://www.1000mistakes.com/qurancomments.php
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  0  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 02:53 pm
@parados,
Quote:
The number of Muslim Jihadists are much less than 10% of the religion. It is less than 5%. Why don't you provide us with a number of how many jihadists there are in Islam today and then we can examine that.
As far as I can determine (it's not an easy search), the actual percentage of publicly stated 'Jihadists' (even including ISIL's 30,000-60,ooo members) is very low.

However the percent of Jihadists isn't particularly necessary to my assertion that Islam is dangerous. As I've mentioned numerous times - that assertion only requires that the number of acts / frequency of acts, severity of acts / breadth of acts (how many countries it's occuring in) or the threat of such severe acts of violence - render it in my opinion, dangerous (and it is an opinion) ....and that an obvious correlation can be drawn between those acts, the founding, the texts, and the institutions.

So we could discuss the exact percentage of jihadists (if you can find a figure)...and it would be somewhat pointless for what you are trying to achieve...because it doesn't change any of the above (it is a related point, but not the crux of the matter).

On Pakistan, you will need to pay a little more attention to world events, Pakistani attitudes, it's internal strife and power struggles, and the dread of a security breach into their nuclear stockpile. You will also need to pay more attention to why, in a country that has such deep seated american hatred, pro-american presidents are almost always elected, and what sort of cabinet such a prime-minister must have.

Parados wrote:
Your argument about Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood is a little odd
The Muslims Brotherhood was an Islamist organisation with 2 million members that gained political power in Egypt
Quote:
“In December … Brotherhood leaders began fomenting anti-Christian sectarian incitement. The anti-Coptic incitement and threats continued unabated up to the demonstrations of June 30 and, with the removal of President Morsi … morphed into sectarian violence, which was sanctioned by … the continued anti-Coptic rhetoric heard from the group’s leaders on the stage … throughout the sit-in.”[109][111]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt

And you still can't bring yourself to discuss the evidence of violence in Islam's name...as I predicted.

I've happily responded to, and discussed the points you raise...but 5 pages or more of refusing to discuss evidence on your part. Why should I keep discussing with such a close minded person?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:50 pm
@vikorr,
You,
Quote:
However the percent of Jihadists isn't particularly necessary to my assertion that Islam is dangerous.


How about white school children killing other school children? Are white school kids dangerous? You'd have to prove it to the parents who lost their children since percent isn't necessary.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 04:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
How about white school children killing other school children?

How about acknowledging this huge problem Islam is, and stop making excuses for it?

FYI the last school shooting was by a native American.
0 Replies
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 04:42 pm
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003717983/14307595_32291afd6f2efde7ee270bc0861d4042_xlarge.jpeg
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  -1  
Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
How about white school children killing other school children? Are white school kids dangerous? You'd have to prove it to the parents who lost their children since percent isn't necessary.
Again...if you want to see if there are contributing ideologies that lead to white school children killing other school children...start a thread on it.

You simply refuse to comprehend that each ideology, and it's effects, can be judged on it's own merits.

- You ask that each person be judged on their own merits & their actions, rather than their race
- You ask that each war be judged on it's own merits and how the country conducts that war (eg, engaging in a war because you are invaded, is a lot different from engaging in a war as the invader, and using a sledgehammer ot crack a walnut as an invader is...)...as you are asking with the Israel / Palestine conflict
- you no doubt judge each country be judged on it's own merits, and it's actions
- you no doubt ask that cults (and their actions) be judged separately from their root religion
- you ask that extremists (and their actions) be judged separately fro their root religion

...but when it comes to applying the same principle as all of the above to judging a religion & it's actions...you insist on comparing, and refuse to judge it on it's own merits...

...even though judging something on it's own merits is the only unbiased way of judging a thing.
 

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