When has religion irked you personally and why?

Cav
I am sorry to have had a hand in hijacking your thread. I am backing off for real now. Back to the original topic: As a former remodeling and roofing contractor, each time I dealt with a church, they always tried to get in my pockets. No act was too devious, for them to weasel out of paying a fair cost for the job. I had to walk away from some pretty big jobs because I refused to go along with a lot of it.

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hobitbob wrote:

Consumption of effluviua had little to do with overcoming fear...

Not true.

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...and more to do with the fashion for sharing in the suffering of Christ

They are not mutually exclusive. Both things used to take place.

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In many ways it was self-perpetuating. It was something saints were expected to do, and if you wished to be a saint, you did it.

Not true. The Church did not canonize saints based on this "expectation". Disturbed people who wished to be declared saints by doing "the right thing" were always suspect, and their causes usually discredited during a judicial process (devil's advocate) that could take centuries.

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I think sainthood often had more to do with legitimizing the blodlines of the newly elite than with holiness, at least before 1800.

You're of course entitled to your personal opinion, but the evidence shows a different story.

:wink:

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Actually maliagar, most of us are simply irked by you. Also, your preaching is entirely NOT in tune with the thread. The thread was supposed be a haven for secularists to voice opinions about personal bad experiences regarding religion, not a place to be preached at. If our inability to see our own blindness, in your words, truly does irk you, then move your message to another thread. Edgar, maliagar pretty much hijacked this thread all on his lonesome. No worries.

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This ain't the only thread that'ts been sidetracked by digressions revolving around maliagar. Hell, by now, he's practically folklore around this place. I guess that may be somewhat appropriate, given his circumlocutions in defense of his own particular favorite superstition.

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Just wondering: how many writers does it take to write "War and Peace?" How about the "bible?"

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cavfancier wrote:

Actually maliagar, most of us are simply irked by you.

Well, I'd say that we're even, but that wouldn't be true. I'm just one person, and you guys are a bunch. So you owe me. :wink:

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Also, your preaching is entirely NOT in tune with the thread.

Normally I would ask when did I preach, but by now I know that you never bring evidence for your claims. Rolling Eyes

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The thread was supposed be a haven for secularists to voice opinions about personal bad experiences regarding religion...

Sorry to have disturbed your secularist haven. The title was not specific enough (something like "Christians not allowed" or "Catholics: Do not disturb" would help). I thought you had meant religion in general, and certainly Secular Humanism (defined as a religion by the U.S. gov't and by anybody with brains) sometimes irks me.

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our inability to see our own blindness, in your words, truly does irk you...

Yeah. It's called "blind faith".

Man, you should have used these words a long time ago, and you would have saved yourself a lot of exhaustion and indigestion. Sorry for disturbing your cozy secularist heaven. By all means, go on with your testimonies, witnessing, and support group dynamics. I won't make you uncomfortable with ackward questions and outlandish points of view anymore. I should have realized how painful it is for a secularist to "waste" just one second of this his one and only life.

So... Enjoy!

Bye.

Laughing

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Has anyone else but me noticed that despite his copious and tedious posts, maliagar has yet to start a thread of his own, that some here just might take seriously?

maliagar wrote:

"Evidently, for some people, religion doesn't exist anymore. They fail to see to what extent they are also BELIEVERS, and to what extent their own personal hopes and passions hide deep (and in most cases, unconscious) acts of FAITH."

Go for it my man, in a thread of your very own making. You might get a better response than here, as that is an actual thesis.

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maliagar wrote:

hobitbob wrote:
Consumption of effluviua had little to do with overcoming fear...

Not true.

Quote:
...and more to do with the fashion for sharing in the suffering of Christ

They are not mutually exclusive. Both things used to take place.

Quote:
In many ways it was self-perpetuating. It was something saints were expected to do, and if you wished to be a saint, you did it.

Not true. The Church did not canonize saints based on this "expectation". Disturbed people who wished to be declared saints by doing "the right thing" were always suspect, and their causes usually discredited during a judicial process (devil's advocate) that could take centuries.

Quote:
I think sainthood often had more to do with legitimizing the blodlines of the newly elite than with holiness, at least before 1800.

You're of course entitled to your personal opinion, but the evidence shows a different story.

:wink:

We must be looking at different evidence. Mine is the historical record and current scholarship. Wink back at you.
As for the theme of the thread, this has been a great example of what irks me about religion. Not looking for any new dogma to take for a walk. Keep the leash on yours, if you please. I would reccoment you look into the history of the process of canonization.The "Devil's Advocate" was a fairly late developement (post 1500) and the entire canonizaiton process as we know it today is a post Tridentine innovation. A good overview of the situation is Anne Jacobsen Schutte's Aspiring Saints: Religious Mania in Early Modern Venice Baltimore, Johns Hopkins University Press, 2002.
Another good reference is Herbert Grundmann's Religiose Bewegungen im Mittelalter . If you don't read German, Notre Dame Press has a translation that is adequate for the lay reader. I would also reccomend Ronal Finucane's Miracles and Pilgrims: Popular Belief in Medieval England Cambridge, 1995.The last one is a book I have frequently used when teaching Medieval. Another excellent work is Ellen Ross' The Grief of God: Images of the Suffering Jesus in Later Medieval England Oxford, 1997.

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Well, here is another reason I am miffed at the religious: The buggers don't know when they are not just wrong, but also unwelcome. Not naming a specific person, you understand; the last minister I knew very well would not take my word for it I am an atheist. He and an elder had to invite themselves to my home. I did not defer to them in the least. By the time he was ready to leave, the minister said, "Well, I guess you told me."

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As a kid, I was forced by the folks to attend religious school and Hebrew school until I was 16, when it was, according to the synagogue, my choice to continue or not. My decision was made up long before our final year confirmation ceremony. All the students needed to make an individual reading, and we also had different roles in the production itself. I played piano, so I was in the band, with two like-minded friends. We secretly wrote blues and reggae arrangements of all the religious songs we had to play, and by the time the Cantor found out, it was too late to change. My reading was a lovely little poem entitled 'I doubt my faith', containing the line 'kiss me I'm German, gas me I'm Jewish' which got a rise out of the crowd, to say the least. At our dress rehearsal, the rabbi threatened to 'slug' me and my friend.

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Cav...great story. I almost got kicked out of Regis High School because I wrote an essay for my 11th grade religion class comparing the contemporary veneration of Elvis and Marilyn Monroe to the role of saints in the Catholic Heierarchy. Very Happy

Those Jesuits have NO sense of humour!

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Putz, this guy is a total putz . . . a putz of monumental proportions . . . Cav, an unkind fate has decreed that in asking this question, you would be irked, vexed, frustrated, maddened by "religion" as you never before imagined possible . . .

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Setanta, as long as it is in his own thread, I don't have to participate.

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I'm sorry, i got carried away, that was an insult to every putz who ever lived . . .

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hobitbob, I got tons of stories, just don't remember most of them, but here are some more: after seeing a ton of holocaust movies in class, teach asked if there were any questions. I asked that if Hitler was a true believer in his faith and his vision, and believed it to be 'right', and we believe in our faith and vision, and believe it to be 'right', can we logically call Hitler's deeds 'wrong?' That one nearly got me expelled. One time, I was asked to make a quick speech about Ethiopian famine relief, as we were collecting money for it that day. I gave an impassioned speech about the horror of the situation, and how we should all give, as this was a very good cause (pause, and I couldn't resist) a lost cause perhaps, but a good one nonetheless.

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"I'll call him marvin...Starvin Marvin."
Very Happy

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cav, Believe it or not, I understand why you almost got expelled. LOL I wish I had been in your class; mine were all very boring. Wink

When has religion irked you personally and why?

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