When has religion irked you personally and why?

maliagar wrote:

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The Bible is the absolute truth except the parts he chooses to disbelieve.

I never said that "the Bible was the absolute truth". Maybe some folk preacher from the heartland, but not me. Historical Christianity was never grounded on the Bible either. But hey, maybe you never heard that one before. Not your fault, so you're forgiven. :wink: Ever heard of the Apostles' Creed, or the Nicene Creed? There you have "parts" that cannot be "picked and chosen"...

Well, Edgar, apparently Maliagar is willing to talk to you.

Perhaps you will ask him about this issue he just raised.

Christianity, as I understand it, requires that Jesus be God incarnate. As I remember it, that notion is incorporated into the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed.

And as I remember it, the only way we get to Jesus being God incarnate - is by having him be the fulfillment of prophecies made in the Bible -- the Old Testament, in fact.

"Historical Christianity was never grounded in the Bible???????"

Gimme a break.

There is no Jesus as God without the Bible. The Bible is at the core of the most fundamental aspects of Christianity -- unless it is inconvenient.

In any case, you are absolutely right. Maliagar is of the school that teaches: If we can use it -- or if it sound right -- or if it is what we want the Bible to say -- USE IT.

If it doesn't fit in to any of those categories -- shitcan it and tell 'em we don't use the Bible that way.

"The yokels will never know. Remember, we don't call them sheep for nothin'. And we are the shepherds."

Ask him about that Edgar. He's afraid to respond to me.

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maliagar:
I refer you to the last two posts. They say it very well.

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natural=all that exists in nature, ergo everything that is.
unnatural=that which does not exist in nature, ergo nothing that is.
empriricism-the method of understanding that which exists in nature, ergo everything
mysticism-the method of understanding that which does not exist in nature. ergo nothing
as maligar sailed into the mystic, we all waved goodbye.

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maliagar's quote: "Not your fault, so you're forgiven." This guy's playing god now. He has the 'power' to forgive. Wink

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dyslexia wrote:

natural=all that exists in nature...

True.

Quote:

..ergo everything that is.

Non sequitur. Heard of the word "supernatural"?

:wink:

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edgarblythe wrote:

maliagar:
I refer you to the last two posts. They say it very well.

Ah... nice to have a guru to save us from doubt...

:wink:

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so since there is a word "supernatural" then supernature exists? wanna play with that one maligar?

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dyslexia wrote:

so since there is a word "supernatural" then supernature exists?

Absolutely. That's the realm of God, the angels, the demons, and that sort of thing.

:wink:

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JN, All of us have been trying to pull teeth from a boar, and none of us have succeeded. This maliagar character suffers from a persecution complex, and thinks we're ganging up on him. All we've learned from maliagar is that he has great skill at evasion, not responding to direct simple questions that can be answered by a yes or no, and responding with questions of his own that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. He has gone as far as explaining why trying to get driving directions in a remote area is analogous to reading and understanding the bible. He claims it was written at a different time, a different culture, and for a different audience. There are probably a dozen or more people that tried to get some straight answers from maliagar, but none is forthcoming. Sorry, that you're disappointed that with all our efforts to keep this on subject matter, we have all failed. I can honestly say that this is the very first time in my life that I have encountered a catholic that is unwilling to answer some very simple questions about his beliefs. Pulling teeth is much easier.

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And also ghosts, goblins, hoodoos, imps, leprechauns, sheenies, vampires,
banshees, gnomes, ........

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Catholic encyclopedia "A supernatural gift may be defined as something conferred on nature that is above all the powers (vires) of created nature"
Cambridge dictionary "to exist" to be; have the ability to be known, recognized, or understood.

which i understand to mean that to be supernatural or if you prefer supranatural, it must be unknown and following the first definition "to be" than supernatural is "not" to be.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

JN, All of us have been trying to pull teeth from a boar, and none of us have succeeded.

That's right!

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He has gone as far as explaining why trying to get driving directions in a remote area is analogous to reading and understanding the bible.

Man! That far? How radical!

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He claims it was written at a different time, a different culture, and for a different audience.

What an unbelievable claim! This maliagar must be nuts!

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There are probably a dozen or more people that tried to get some straight answers from maliagar, but none is forthcoming.

I wonder why they go on...

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this is the very first time in my life that I have encountered a catholic that is unwilling to answer some very simple questions about his beliefs.

First, get your questions straight... :wink:

Let's see: Do you believe the demons have 6 horns?

A simple question demands a simple answer: Yes or no! Quick!

Laughing

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Everybody keeps engaging him or her on the grand diversion. The only apparent way to get back to the original topic is to split the thread. God knows what the new title would be. :wink:

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maliagar is a messenger from god. Maybe he can suggest the new title. Wink

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:wink:

I think this discussion is very much to the point. For a lot of people are getting "irked" around here.

The religion of the rationalists-secularists-atheists-hedonists irks me because it is the blindest of all religions.

You see: All explicit religions know where their faith rests. But the rationalists-secularists-atheists-hedonists are so persuaded of the purely rational character of their beliefs, that they get disoriented when the time comes to determine where exactly the object of their own personal faith rests.

It's always fun to see how believing are the atheists, how arbitrary the rationalists, how pious the secularists, how puritanical the hedonists, how know-it-all the (fake) agnostics...

But when they persist in not seeing their own blindness... it becomes irking.

Rolling Eyes

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I personally become irked when otherwise intelligent people tell me how "awful" if is that I am going to hell, because I don't believe in their personal mythology. I learned long ago not to engage in discussions with these folk. For them, history and science are meaningless. I guess its easier to believe what you wish to believe than to take the time to investigate.
Having faith that a particular 17th century translation of pre-4th century CE texts chosen by a commitee to be canonical (out of over 500 competing texts) is the "absolute truth" requires one heck of an act of self-deception!

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Piffka wrote:

Y'know. Yesterday I was thinking of starting a topic about weird things that nuns have said and done.

For example... I was feeling badly after my father died and went to visit with the bereavement counselor who happened to be a nun. We had lunch together and then she decided to "help" me by telling me the story of some saint who, to show her fearlessness or something, stuck her finger into the oozing sores of leper and then put her finger into her mouth. She demonstrated, of course, with the soup from our lunch. I nearly keeled over.

Common behaviour for the aspiring beatificus! Read Andrez Vauchez' The Laity in the High Middle Ages. I call it the sore-slurping book! Wink

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But, hobit, those committee members were guided personally by god!

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hobitbob wrote:

Piffka wrote:
she decided to "help" me by telling me the story of some saint who, to show her fearlessness or something, stuck her finger into the oozing sores of leper and then put her finger into her mouth. ...
...sore-slurping ...

Powerful way of getting rid of fear: Go after the source of your fears.

Check with the military, with some Buddhist monks, or someone else that seriously tried to overcome their own limitations through tough discipline.

Of course, some people cannot go beyond saying "yuck".

That leads nowhere.

Rolling Eyes

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maliagar wrote:

hobitbob wrote:
Piffka wrote:
she decided to "help" me by telling me the story of some saint who, to show her fearlessness or something, stuck her finger into the oozing sores of leper and then put her finger into her mouth. ...
...sore-slurping ...

Powerful way of getting rid of fear: Go after the source of your fears.

Check with the military, with some Buddhist monks, or someone else that seriously tried to overcome their own limitations through tough discipline.

Of course, some people cannot go beyond saying "yuck".

That leads nowhere.

Consumption of effluviua had little to do with overcoming fear and more to do with the fashion for sharing in the suffering of Christ that became popular (especially as a women's devotion) in the period from about 1100-1600. In many ways it was self-perpetuating. It was something saints were expected to do, and if you wished to be a saint, you did it. I think sainthood often had more to do with legitimizing the blodlines of the newly elite than with holiness, at least before 1800.
Obviously, patterns emerged over time.In the late antique period the avenue to sainthood was martyrdom. After this period, until the early eleventh century sainthood usually was the reward of a successful clergyman who had added to the wealth of a diosecese. In addition, sainthood was often conferred on members of royal or large Ducal families as a way of enlarging the authority fo these groups (see particularly the rivary of the houses of Anjou and Lorraine in the 10th through 15th centuries). "Lay saints," (often from the emerging middle class and lower nobility) became popular in the 1200-1700 era. Marjorie Kemp's conscious imitation of the recently deceased Catehrine of Siena demonstrates that a cognitive model was in place at this time and was fairly well understood by much of society.

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When has religion irked you personally and why?

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