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Dishonest Questions About Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 03:35 pm
un-

I think your use of the word "incredibly" suggests you have a great deal of unused capacity.

What have I said to upset you like this. I only reported what I read. I haven't said anything about what I think on any of these subjects. Give me an example or two of something that has given you cause to make your clever remark and then I can address the matter and try to bring myself within range of your approval. I do so crave to have it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 06:09 pm
wande-

Don't you think that it is a bit dishonest to try to pretend that the posters on A2K would ask such stupid questions about evolution as you are presuming to suggest they ask.

Has anyone on here asked any of those questions?

Are you inventing idiots in order to appear superior to them?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 06:22 pm
Spendi,

I have seen each question (in some form) asked on A2K threads. All quotes are the intellectual property of A2K.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 06:38 pm
Holy smoke!

I thought this was ask an expert.

Have I made a mistake?

I thought I was in exalted company. That's what the blurb said.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:12 pm
1) the entire human RACE is ignorant to the majority of the brain's operation.

2) Yes of COURSE any neurologist who claims that 90% of the brain is not used is absolutely an ignoramus, because only an idiot would make a statement about something that they do not understand. I don't care how many years a person has spent studying the brain, they can't possibly know more than the human race presently does.

3) Give some names of living neurologists who stand by that claim spendius
0 Replies
 
BlueAwesomeness
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 08:06 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Here are some more...

Quote:
If evolution is true, then why haven't scientists evolved an organism in a lab experiment?


Quote:
If evolution is true, then why is the fossil record between monkeys and humans missing?


Quote:
Which evolved first, the chicken or the egg?


The first two are very good quetions. I would love to know the answers. Also, if evolution were true, how come there is no record of anyone ever seeing something between a monkey and a human? If it were true, one would have to have existed in the past few thousand years.

I think many of these are valid questions. And if evolutionists were able to answer them, then I would actually consider changing my views on evolution. So why is everyone so against people asking them?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 08:33 pm
BlueAwesomeness wrote:
I think many of these are valid questions. And if evolutionists were able to answer them, then I would actually consider changing my views on evolution. So why is everyone so against people asking them?


Because they aren't valid questions. They are either proposed out the ignorance of the person asking the questions, or by someone who has an agenda, and doesn't really care what the answer is, but who simply wants to raise doubts about a theory of evolution.

This is a perfect example:

Quote:
Also, if evolution were true, how come there is no record of anyone ever seeing something between a monkey and a human? If it were true, one would have to have existed in the past few thousand years.


Since there wasn't "anyone" around, it would be a bit much to expect. Hominids diverged from the ancestors of the old world monkeys and the great apes about 20,000,000 years ago. We are homo sapiens sapiens, and no other hominid species have survived. H. sapiens sapiens arose as long ago as 150,000 years. When you say that "one would have to have existed in the past few thousand years," you are either woefully uninformed, or you are wedded to an assumption that the earth is only a few thousand years old--i.e., a "young earth" creationist.

If that is the case, you should at least be honest about it up front.
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BlueAwesomeness
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 08:59 pm
Setanta wrote:
and no other hominid species have survived.



That sounds awfully coincidental. Lucky for evolutionists that none of them survived so they don't have to prove their point.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 10:09 pm
BlueAwesomeness wrote:
Setanta wrote:
and no other hominid species have survived.



That sounds awfully coincidental. Lucky for evolutionists that none of them survived so they don't have to prove their point.


Don't know anything about a theory of evolution, do you?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 03:43 am
He knows better than to presume those questions are "dishonest". To make that presumption is simply a cheapskate way of excusing oneself from answering them.

I feel sure that those questions have been asked honestly and many times. Maybe they are simplistic and naive, or some of them, but that is not the same as dishonest.

One might expect simplistic and naive questions to appear on a site known as Ask an Expert as people seek guidance. Why don't you provide that guidance instead of insulting people by saying they are being dishonest.

Here's an honest question-

How has evolution gone from the millions of years during which no species provided the slightest threat to the planet to a 200 year explosion of capacity in man which might be said to threaten the existence of all life when it is an obvious fact that evolutionary changes of even a minor order require long stretches, unimaginably long in Darwin's words, to work through.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 04:48 am
For BlueAwesomeness, a summary of evolutionary theory and types of supporting evidence:

Quote:
The gist of the concept is that small, random, heritable differences among individuals result in survival and reproduction?-success for some, death without offspring for others?-and that this natural culling leads to significant changes in shape, size, strength, armament, color, biochemistry, and behavior among the descendants. Excess population growth drives the competitive struggle. Because less successful competitors produce fewer surviving offspring, the useless or negative variations tend to disappear, whereas the useful variations tend to be perpetuated and gradually magnified throughout a population.

So much for one part of the evolutionary process, known as anagenesis, during which a single species is transformed. But there's also a second part, known as speciation. Genetic changes sometimes accumulate within an isolated segment of a species, but not throughout the whole, as that isolated population adapts to its local conditions. Gradually it goes its own way, seizing a new ecological niche. At a certain point it becomes irreversibly distinct?-that is, so different that its members can't interbreed with the rest. Two species now exist where formerly there was one. Darwin called that splitting-and-specializing phenomenon the "principle of divergence." It was an important part of his theory, explaining the overall diversity of life as well as the adaptation of individual species.

The evidence, as he presented it, mostly fell within four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology. Biogeography is the study of the geographical distribution of living creatures?-that is, which species inhabit which parts of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms, as revealed in the fossil record. Embryology examines the revealing stages of development (echoing earlier stages of evolutionary history) that embryos pass through before birth or hatching; at a stretch, embryology also concerns the immature forms of animals that metamorphose, such as the larvae of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design. Darwin devoted sizable sections of The Origin of Species to these categories.

Biogeography, for instance, offered a great pageant of peculiar facts and patterns. Anyone who considers the biogeographical data, Darwin wrote, must be struck by the mysterious clustering pattern among what he called "closely allied" species?-that is, similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan. Such closely allied species tend to be found on the same continent (several species of zebras in Africa) or within the same group of oceanic islands (dozens of species of honeycreepers in Hawaii, 13 species of Galápagos finch), despite their species-by-species preferences for different habitats, food sources, or conditions of climate. Adjacent areas of South America, Darwin noted, are occupied by two similar species of large, flightless birds (the rheas, Rhea americana and Pterocnemia pennata), not by ostriches as in Africa or emus as in Australia. South America also has agoutis and viscachas (small rodents) in terrestrial habitats, plus coypus and capybaras in the wetlands, not?-as Darwin wrote?-hares and rabbits in terrestrial habitats or beavers and muskrats in the wetlands. During his own youthful visit to the Galápagos, aboard the survey ship Beagle, Darwin himself had discovered three very similar forms of mockingbird, each on a different island.

Why should "closely allied" species inhabit neighboring patches of habitat? And why should similar habitat on different continents be occupied by species that aren't so closely allied? "We see in these facts some deep organic bond, prevailing throughout space and time," Darwin wrote. "This bond, on my theory, is simply inheritance." Similar species occur nearby in space because they have descended from common ancestors.

Paleontology reveals a similar clustering pattern in the dimension of time. The vertical column of geologic strata, laid down by sedimentary processes over the eons, lightly peppered with fossils, represents a tangible record showing which species lived when. Less ancient layers of rock lie atop more ancient ones (except where geologic forces have tipped or shuffled them), and likewise with the animal and plant fossils that the strata contain. What Darwin noticed about this record is that closely allied species tend to be found adjacent to one another in successive strata. One species endures for millions of years and then makes its last appearance in, say, the middle Eocene epoch; just above, a similar but not identical species replaces it. In North America, for example, a vaguely horselike creature known as Hyracotherium was succeeded by Orohippus, then Epihippus, then Mesohippus, which in turn were succeeded by a variety of horsey American critters. Some of them even galloped across the Bering land bridge into Asia, then onward to Europe and Africa. By five million years ago they had nearly all disappeared, leaving behind Dinohippus, which was succeeded by Equus, the modern genus of horse. Not all these fossil links had been unearthed in Darwin's day, but he captured the essence of the matter anyway. Again, were such sequences just coincidental? No, Darwin argued. Closely allied species succeed one another in time, as well as living nearby in space, because they're related through evolutionary descent.

Embryology too involved patterns that couldn't be explained by coincidence. Why does the embryo of a mammal pass through stages resembling stages of the embryo of a reptile? Why is one of the larval forms of a barnacle, before metamorphosis, so similar to the larval form of a shrimp? Why do the larvae of moths, flies, and beetles resemble one another more than any of them resemble their respective adults? Because, Darwin wrote, "the embryo is the animal in its less modified state" and that state "reveals the structure of its progenitor."

Morphology, his fourth category of evidence, was the "very soul" of natural history, according to Darwin. Even today it's on display in the layout and organization of any zoo. Here are the monkeys, there are the big cats, and in that building are the alligators and crocodiles. Birds in the aviary, fish in the aquarium. Living creatures can be easily sorted into a hierarchy of categories?-not just species but genera, families, orders, whole kingdoms?-based on which anatomical characters they share and which they don't.

All vertebrate animals have backbones. Among vertebrates, birds have feathers, whereas reptiles have scales. Mammals have fur and mammary glands, not feathers or scales. Among mammals, some have pouches in which they nurse their tiny young. Among these species, the marsupials, some have huge rear legs and strong tails by which they go hopping across miles of arid outback; we call them kangaroos. Bring in modern microscopic and molecular evidence, and you can trace the similarities still further back. All plants and fungi, as well as animals, have nuclei within their cells. All living organisms contain DNA and RNA (except some viruses with RNA only), two related forms of information-coding molecules.

Such a pattern of tiered resemblances?-groups of similar species nested within broader groupings, and all descending from a single source?-isn't naturally present among other collections of items. You won't find anything equivalent if you try to categorize rocks, or musical instruments, or jewelry. Why not? Because rock types and styles of jewelry don't reflect unbroken descent from common ancestors. Biological diversity does. The number of shared characteristics between any one species and another indicates how recently those two species have diverged from a shared lineage.


Source: David Quammen, National Geographic Magazine
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:37 am
spendi
Quote:
How has evolution gone from the millions of years during which no species provided the slightest threat to the planet to a 200 year explosion of capacity in man which might be said to threaten the existence of all life when it is an obvious fact that evolutionary changes of even a minor order require long stretches, unimaginably long in Darwin's words, to work through.
.
Thats not true, early bauplans of life included the cyanobacters , whose respiratory exudate was a toxic gas (wrt the planet at that time) Dirst thing after they established themselves it becameobvious that the entire atmosphere was becoming fouled with oxygen. Evolution is not a predictor of what will happen in years to come, it is, primarily, a system by which species
adapt, when adaptation is accomplished , some "weeding out" takes place at various time scales. Consider how feral goats and cats can totally change the ecosystems of islands after they are introduced(all within a few generations).

The fact that man is pan-terraforming animal whose technology and populational size has clearly demonstrated theFranklin/Malthusian observation of "Reproduction rates always outstrip the ability for the environment to support", which Darwin used in his own sysnthesis.

Ben Franklin observed that said "If we were to strip the world of all species except Fennel Plants and Englishmen, we would, in a few generations, be overwhelmed with Englishmen and Fennel Plants. Malthus copied that thinking and Darwin actually found ways to quantitate the results. We are, in a fashion, demonstrating the "Carrying capacity" of the ecosystem. The fact that we induce the changes is just the genius of this species.
Keep up the observation though, its good for you to walk outside the pub now and again.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:39 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
The gist of the concept is that small, random, heritable differences among individuals result in survival and reproduction..


The use of the word "random" is an assertion. As the whole of the anti-design argument is posited on the word it follows that it is posited on that assertion and the assertion cannot be proved.

One might thus conclude that the anti-design argument is unscientific and relies on the reader hardly noticing this important word in a long screed of psuedo-scientific jargon which utilises long words to weave spells around the reader with a view to baffling him which is the standard practice of all shamans and thus quite unsurprising.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:43 am
In fact, there is already a passage in the history of the evolution of life on earth in which a single species threatened almost all life on earth. The appearance of cyanobacteria eventually destroyed huge amounts of the bacterial life which then existed--although it took literally hundreds of millions of years for them to create enough oxygen to threaten the anaerobic life forms which had first arisen.

It is a conceit to think that humans would destroy life on the planet. It is possible, but highly improbable, that humanity might destroy the planet itself. But other than shattering the planet, the most likely consequence of the self-destruction of the human race would be the gradual rise of another dominant and sentient life from. It doesn't flatter our self-importance to consider it, but we are just not that important, nor is our impact that great. Life will get along just fine if we happen to screw up and destroy ourselves.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:47 am
Good morning, Bubbula--i see you were also drawn by the Spurious nonsense this fine morning. Time to get some coffee.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:51 am
Im on my second cup, watch out crossword puzzle!
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 11:00 am
How can anybody say that another species, having a fancy impressive name of course known only to the elite, have threatened life on our planet when here we are in the midst of life. Cynobacteria is just another bogeyman, to save the phenomena of a half-baked theory, which is probably made up to frighten the aunties.

And I only said "might be said to threaten the existence of all life". I didn't say we did threaten the existence of life. I have heard scientists say it. I too think it a conceit but not 100%. Anyone who thinks 100% about anything is stupid by definition from a scientific point of view and when adding that to an inability to read a simple sentence properly it borders on the cretinous.

A large amount of time and money was spent on checking the moon walkers for just such a danger. There are other possibilities I gather related to military biological weaponry, radiation, damage to protective layers in the upper atmosphere and some scientists seem to think that global warming could reach a critical point beyond which things go whoosh.

But as usual the point is missed. It concerned the timescale being outside of an evolutionary explanation. That Christian man is not subject to evolution theory and the proper study of mankind is man. Who cares about cynobacteria from the unimaginably distant past?

You guys will just have to stay in the hole your arrogance has dug for you and lob your feather dusters out from time to time. The Second Religiousness is coming as Spengler predicted.

In the Dylan song Nettie Moore (2006) there is this-

"Well, the world of research has gone beserk
Too much paperwork
Albert's in the graveyard, Frankie's raising hell
I'm beginning to believe what the scriptures tell."

Second thoughts eh? The second line of the song is "Something's out of whack."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 11:26 am
How's this for a mystic prophecy dating about 1602

"Take but degree away, untune that string,
And hark, what discord follows. Each thing meets
In mere oppugnancy. The bounded waters
Should lift their bosoms higher than the shores
And make a sop of all this solid globe."

Troilus and Cressida.

The American Dream is based on untuning that string isn't it?

And the scientists say that the waters are rising.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 12:36 pm
wandeljw wrote:
Spendi,

I have seen each question (in some form) asked on A2K threads. All quotes are the intellectual property of A2K.


An untapped wealth of funding, I'm sure Smile
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 01:27 pm
The problem in trusting creationism is they start with the virgin birth. They don't want any evidence or proof of that. We might ask the same question; were you there?
0 Replies
 
 

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