HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

Did you happen to see the movie "The passion of the Christ"?

Your point?

T
K
Oh this should be good...

Time heals all wounds I've been told. I'm managing.

I want to thank you for stubbing your toe so I wouln't have to stub mine.

T
K
Ouch! I just stubbed my toe! Dear god why!

>>>>Loud voice from heaven.<<<<
BECAUSE!

^^Best post ever Neo.

T
K
O

The point is that is shows you how Jesus Christ suffered for YOU, just so that YOU and I could get to heaven. That's how much God does care for us. He is pleading with us to simply accept what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross to pay for our sins, so that we don't have to go to hell.

But Baggy;
Jesus said the meek would inherit the earth.

Just goes to show that anti-semites know propaganda.

Both before and after Jesus, people have endured worse suffering for real causes. Even if we were to look at your Bible, I'd say your Job endured much worse than Jesus.

Not of that matters though.

T
K
O

I'm glad I'm not one. But it sure does look like we have some anti-christians here.

Here's an original question: How is it that Jesus' suffering serves as payment for the sins of humanity? Does anyone claim to understand how that works?

I have found that very curious. I suspect it has to do with the fact that the Biblical God, like all primitive Gods, needs a sacrifice.

Apparently in the far past he had humans sacrificed to make him happy. Then he changed his mind and demanded animals. They had to be sacrificed in a certain manner.

Then God changed his mind again. He decided he would come to earth as a human, pray to himself to make everyone think he was a human, have himself sacrificed and tell everyone he did this to pay for their sins.

Wasn't that wonderful of him?

Funny how the pagan Gods impregnated women and produced demigods. They did service for mankind. One of the best loved of these demigods was Hercules. He did Twelve Labors for mankind to show his service to humans.

Christianity seems to have taken this pagan custom and exaggerated it. Instead of a demigod Jesus was God. He did preform a few "miracles" to show his followers that he was magical but his primary task had to do with the paranormal. He was going to save the sinful, evil and wicked souls of all of humanity. No one could enter heaven and live in the City of Gold without praising and groveling to him. The only purpose of life on this earth was to devote yourself to Jesus. Perhaps the quality of your devotion will determine the size of your townhouse in the City of Gold.

Christianity has changed in the last 1900 years or so. Initially you had to be devoted to this God in human costume. You had to accept Jesus as your saviour. If you didn't than you went to hell.

Today you have several options. You may go to hell or be cast off into some wilderness or go to heaven anyway. It all depends on which Christian God you choose to believe in. There have been so many of them created in the last 400 years or so.

You crack me up, xingu.

I wonder why it is okay for them to jump around from one church to another, looking for one that makes more sense, but not okay to abandon the search altogether. (I'm guessing it's fear of retribution.)

I am guessing that one wants a God that reflects their values. That doesn't mean that conservative Christians approve of ripping fetuses out of pregnant women but a lot of them are incredibly ignorant about the Bible. They listen to what the church tells them and read passages they are told to read. If they do come across something they don't like there's always an excuse, even if sounds dumb.

I once asked someone if Jesus was born to a virgin where did the other half of his DNA come from. The answer was POOF, God miraculously provided it.

That's logical, isn't it?

"Poof" is what they REALLY worship! That's their false idol.

I agree they seem to shop around for a religion that suits their liking. But there also seems to be a glass ceiling of sorts -- some doubts are allowed consideration but not others. I think the god-fearers live with the constant sense that "God" has an itchy trigger finger. It's the whole notion of "mortal sins" and eternal damnation, I guess. One wrong move...

Beliefs take on many forms...Generally something starts out one thing and as time goes by and people translate for themselves they morph things into their own beliefs. This is not so hard to understand. We all take what we want to believe and bend it to make it work for us - in some way or other. That is human nature. It is why there are so many different denominations. Even Atheist have different beliefs from each other...or so I have heard. Baptist believe you have to be dunked under water in order to be in line with scripture...but low and behold Methodist sprinkle, Presbyterians sprinkle and they do it when you are a baby rather than when you make a profession of faith. Catholics believe that Mary never sinned and that she was the Holy Mother...all beliefs vary in some degree. Does this mean that what we believe is wrong? Or that I can't fellowship and love others with different beliefs? No...we do the best we can with what we know.

The Bible is clear on one thing especially - there is no way to the Father but through Jesus Christ. The only way to know God is to come through His son. Echi asked what that meant exactly? Well...when Jesus died he willingly accepted every sin we had ever committed - or will ever commit - whether figuratively or literally - I do not know - but his accepting the debt of all those sins caused his Father (God - who is pure and cannot be a part of sin) to turn his back on His son. Jesus knew total seperation from His Father which is hell - and it killed him. When he was buried those sins that he had taken on were buried with him. When he was resurrected, he was resurrected to new life. He was taken to the right hand of his Father's side...He again was sinless...but because of his sacrifice we no longer have to make sacrifices for our sins. We don't have to because it was done once and for all for us. Believers do have to acknowledge their sin and ask forgiveness. But the ritual of sacrifice in Christianity is past. It has always been an animal..generally a spotless lamb, never human or a child. Worshipers of Baal or other gods did require human sacrifice. But never in Christianity. And now not at all because of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus made.

Before Christ - I am sure that just as today - the requirements were taken and used to serve whatever purpose people wanted. There were many different gods...idols that people worshipped besides God. So it is not unthinkable that people took sacrifices and used it as they saw fit...once again taking truths and applying it to unbiblical rituals they chose to follow. But in Christianity...God is jealous and does require our total devotion. No other gods, we are to serve God and God alone.

Xingu - I am re-reading Hosea. I have not heard of the claims you made about the scripture and God telling the men to rip the children out of the wombs of women...but I am reading to see where that came from and why. I have read the Bible cover to cover and don't remember that part...I either couldn't figure it out and chose to forget it or saw it in a different context. It is easy for me to understand why people do what they do. I have that tendency myself. I am called on many mistakes I make in word and deed and have to go back and search why I believed what I did - or said what I said. This is a good thing.

But I do follow scripture and adhere to the Bible the best I can. I have read so much of it and can apply so much of it...Proverbs, Psalms - and especially the New Testament. So it is strange to hear the claims that are made about how horrible and unkind the God of the old Testament is. But the only thing I can think of is that it is read in a different context. I am trying to go back and read it as someone who does not believe and see how that conclusion can be made...but I am not sure that I can.

I also see what you are saying echi, about how people change churches. I have noticed this as well. I do not agree with it. But it is their choice. They have to find where they fit and how they believe. Just because I do not agree with going from Church to Church does not mean it shouldn't be done. I have always believed in researching the churches in an area..how they serve their community, what is preached from the pulpit and the doctrines they believe in. I make my choice and that is where I serve. I have been a member of two Churches in my life. The one I grew up in for 28 years and the one I belong to now. I moved to a different city and have now been a member for 12 years. I think the main reason people jump from Church to Church is that they cannot find the right fit beliefwise or fellowshipwise.

Churches should never become places that people feel awkward being new in or not a part of...but unfortunately - we all have a tendency to stick with the people we know and are comfortable with. Some Churches appear to be hard to become part of because the people all know each other and are comfortable with where they are. This is never a good thing...we are always to reach out to the new people in the Church and help them find a loving place to worship. But it doesn't always happen that way. I have to say it is what I have to work hardest at...stepping outside my comfort zone and welcoming in the new folks in. Some people go to a church thinking it believes one thing and then find out the beliefs are totaly not what they thought and have to seek another place. So many reasons for changing churches...but so many different beliefs pulled from the same Bible. Is this right or good? No...but no way to know until we are face to face with God. So in the meantime...I cannot judge - and I'm not suppose to. I give guidance where I can and leave it to the person to be guided by whatever or whoever they choose to listen to. That is the only way I know how to help when asked for help.

The main thing I try to remember is that every person is a creation of God and has worth and value to God and that I am to love them as I love myself and I am to love the Lord my God with all my heart and all my soul and all my mind. The rest seems to fall into place for me.

Every one is different. The Word of God applies to all and yet as you see and know for yourselves is understood differently by how it is translated or understood by those who do not understand how to read it in context of the times and translation. I am not as adept at that as I'd like to be. But I am a student of the Bible and am trying to get better at reading it and understanding it...and explaining it. I have a long way to go.

As I have previously posted...

The answers that Christianity gives are non-sensical. The conceppt of sin alone is counter-intuitive. However Mismi, thanks for posting up what you believe along with it's direct relavance to you.

T
K
O

Religion is by definition anti-rationalistic. Only when you involve emotion does it seem to make sense. I agree with Karl Marx on his 'opium' statement.

FRODOBAGGINS
Do you believe in the Lord of the Rings as well as the King of Kings?

Not everyone, even all Christians, expect to go to heaven? (Matthew 5:5 and Psalm 37:9-11, 29 & 34). Some of us have not forgotten God's purpose for the earth, which cannot go unfulfilled. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)