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HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

 
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:34 am
obviously then you've never been to the outer banks.... Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:43 am
I've been to the outer banks many times--and i've also spent days attempting to drive through downtown Raleigh (or so it seemed, even if only an hour ticked over on my watch).

(It is true, though, that there was no 540 when i lived there in the 80s. If that is intended to allow people to avoid driving in Raleigh, it would certainly seem to be heaven-sent.)
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 10:24 am
Setanta wrote:
You are either missing the point, or you are being willfully obtuse. The christians of the second century had available to them the version of the Torah as it existed after being revised in the 6th and 5th centuries BCE, and not the version which existed prior to that, which is my point.
Er. . .
Setanta wrote:
. . . and that despite the fact that the Jews did not decide upon a canonical text until more than two centuries later, when the texts were revised in the late 5th and early 6th centuries CE.
Server overload?

I believe I now understand your point. But obviously, if the original writings were inspired by God, surely he would have protected the essential integrity of the copies. This seems particularly true in light of the many opportunities scribes would have had to excise what they might have considered passages less than complimentary to the Jews.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 10:29 am
Setanta wrote:
. . . Therefore, to return to the original source of all of the nonsense embodied in the last several posts--Frodo cannot state with any certainty which exists outside his own devoted pate just how many authors there were for the Bobble, or when it was written.

Dime to a dollar that he doesn't even know the difference between the Jawist and the Elohist.
Which is one reason I have been reluctant to offer serious input to this thread.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 10:39 am
Yes, the second entry ought to have been 6th and 5th centuries BCE.

neologist wrote:
I believe I now understand your point. But obviously, if the original writings were inspired by God, surely he would have protected the essential integrity of the copies.


That's a big "if" there, Bubba, and it places the burden of proof squarely upon whoever makes such a claim.

Quote:
This seems particularly true in light of the many opportunities scribes would have had to excise what they might have considered passages less than complimentary to the Jews.


Absent any evidence that your imaginary friend wielded the ultimate celestial blue pencil, this is precisely why so many people are skeptical about the claim for divinely-inspired, inerrant truth in the Bobble. After all, the text is no different, to the scholar without a religious agenda, than any other text of a tribal people who are anxious to portray themselves in a favorable light. The claim to have a special covenant with your boy god is somewhat unique up to the point that all sorts of christian types began to trot out the same claim for themselves--but otherwise, it differs in no significant way from other such texts--such a Roman mythic history or the Anglo-Saxon chronicles, both of which can be shown to be less than entirely truthful, or at least in significant conflict with other sources. A famous example of how such sources trip themselves up is the claim in the AS chronicles that they conquered Somerset, followed about 70 or 80 years later of a report of the invasion of Somerset. If they conquered it the first time, why were they invading it three generations later.

The Bobble gets a pass in the mind of the true believers, even though it is as riddle with contradictions and absurdities as any other such text, and solely because he true believer wants to believe, and not because the text is any better founded than any other comparable set of ethnic fairy tales.
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 12:39 am
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.
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Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 01:30 am
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.


Why do you keep coming back? You certainly have no interest in engaging in a conversation, so you might as well spray paint your narrow views on bloody wall.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 09:00 am
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.
You left out the only correct alternative:

Man was not created to live in heaven.
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mismi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 09:28 am
Neologist...What was man created for? Honest question - really curious as to what your opinion is.
Thanks...
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 02:18 pm
Genesis 1:28:
"Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."

Isaiah 45:18:

"For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited. . ."

Proverbs 2:21:
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it."

Matthew 5:5

" . . .the meek shall inherit the earth. . ."

Revelation 21 3:4:
""Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."

And what about those who are taken to heaven?

They are "to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10)
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massmutual
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 02:25 pm
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.


i'm cool with that but.... if we do as you say and thena don't get to heaven, like who do we take to court, yo u or God ??

answer me that then maybe I'll vote in your poll
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massmutual
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Aug, 2007 02:33 pm
ummmm ' like.... xfr, you heard of the jewish folks maybe.... they can't go to heaven in your poll....

coupla others left out too
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 08:38 pm
massmutual wrote:
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.


i'm cool with that but.... if we do as you say and thena don't get to heaven, like who do we take to court, yo u or God ??

answer me that then maybe I'll vote in your poll
'

The answer is neither. You WILL go to be with the Lord if you TRULY put your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. That isn't a joke.
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mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2007 06:15 am
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
massmutual wrote:
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Please take the time to read this first thread and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.


i'm cool with that but.... if we do as you say and thena don't get to heaven, like who do we take to court, yo u or God ??

answer me that then maybe I'll vote in your poll
'

The answer is neither. You WILL go to be with the Lord if you TRULY put your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. That isn't a joke.


It's true. Being a believer is not an exclusive thing.

1 Timothy 2:3-5
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The problem is not with the people themselves. God loves us all - he made us all. We have made our own way and continue to deny him. He wants us all to come to know him.
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 04:14 pm
Right
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 09:22 pm
Wrong.

Even if Jesus existed, he didn't sacrifice anything, and he certainly didn't suffur more than anyone else. There a more reliable recordings in human history of far more terifying suffering and sacrifice.

I'm not impressed.

Q: How do you get to heaven?
A: Fake it til you make it. That's the policy right?

BTW, your poll is incredibly limited, which to me suggests that you aren't very versed in any spiritual alternative to what you've been taught.

Tired of empty claims.
K
O
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 10:44 pm
Actually, Jesus Christ suffered more than anyone in human history. As far as the PHYSICAL suffering goes, He may not have, but He suffered in realms which we have no understanding.
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 01:17 am
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Actually, Jesus Christ suffered more than anyone in human history. As far as the PHYSICAL suffering goes, He may not have, but He suffered in realms which we have no understanding.


Normally I'd be excited to hear why someone would make such a hollow claim, but since you haven't proven yourself to be very forthcoming with evidence historically, I'm not going to jump out of my seat.

For someone who claims that Jesus' suffering was beyond understanding, you seem to casually speak of it as if it's actually quite easy to understand. I think I understand how much Christians claim he suffered, and again, I'm not impressed.

The truth of the matter is that Christianity is faced with the dilema that Jesus didn't suffer or sacrifice to any significant degree more than any other victim of cruelty etc. When faced with that, people have to refer to other "realms" to make Jesus' theoretical suffering more significant. Weak.

T
K
O
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Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 03:27 am
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Actually, Jesus Christ suffered more than anyone in human history. As far as the PHYSICAL suffering goes, He may not have, but He suffered in realms which we have no understanding.


I once smashed my pinky toe into a dresser. That stuff really hurts. Are trying to convince me that being crucified is more painful or that there is any greater suffering?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 08:41 am
Coolwhip wrote:
XFRODOBAGGINSX wrote:
Actually, Jesus Christ suffered more than anyone in human history. As far as the PHYSICAL suffering goes, He may not have, but He suffered in realms which we have no understanding.


I once smashed my pinky toe into a dresser. That stuff really hurts. Are trying to convince me that being crucified is more painful or that there is any greater suffering?
Tell me, did you nail your lil bitty pinky to the dresser?

Awww, you poor thing.

You're still alive, right?
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