Bosch Tankless Water Heater

I'm currently researching a Rinnai tankless H2O heater for my home.

The technology is proven, but a professional installation is the key to success.
Hey!, the same thing applies to H2O systems... proven technology backed up by professional installation and service = happy customers.

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That from a guy that can't change the settings on softeners he sells and supposedly services....

And here mostly tells anyone with a problem to buy a new $3500 Ecowater softener! And repeats Ecowater's company line about "professional installation"! Installation is very simple plumbing. You cut the water line, plumb to and from the softener (or a tankless water heater) and run a drain line to a drain and sweep up the floor.

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It's time for your meds and a nap - you are getting cranky again

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Tankless water heater
I agree that installation is very straight forward and very much in line with many consumers capabilities.......and I stress many, not all. The main sticking point however is that many manufacturers now require professional installation and request proof of this when requesting warranty service. I have performed countless plumbing jobs on my rental properties and have had to pass many inspections but I am not a licensed plumber so I would not be permitted to install many of these tankless water heaters and retain my warranty. This kind of sucks but such is life.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

It's time for your meds and a nap - you are getting cranky again

I'm not sure that you guys are aware...but you're becoming good theater here.

Of course, understand that I need a life...which I'm getting very soon.

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Ragman wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
It's time for your meds and a nap - you are getting cranky again

I'm not sure that you guys are aware...but you're becoming good theater here.

I figured that was the sole reason the exchanges were allowed to continue.

Pop some corn, grab a cold beverage and enjoy the show

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Re: Tankless water heater

Big Dog wrote:

I agree that installation is very straight forward and very much in line with many consumers capabilities.......and I stress many, not all. The main sticking point however is that many manufacturers now require professional installation and request proof of this when requesting warranty service.

I take it you mean manufacturers of tankless water heaters. Water softeners sold online or by many independent local dealers do not have that requirement/problem. Any softener or other water treatment equipment, or tankless water heaters, that have the requirement are attempting to prevent sales to DIYers to protect the dealer/plumber, and I suggest you find another piece of equipment that doesn't have the requirement, or pay them for their installation.

BTW, to my knowledge, all tankless heaters have water quality minimums that must be met or the warranty is voided. Usually that will require at least a water softener. So why not buy a well insulated high efficiency tank type heater and a softener and install both your self?

I suggest the Marathon water heater is the best tank type heater there is for both longevity and efficiency (they cant rust). All tankless heaters have flow controls, so be very careful in the sizing, which must be done according to the peak demand gpm you must heat. Just like to size a softener although my good buddy h20man denies that you have to pay any attention to that...

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your good buddy? -- Not bloody likely!

Gary Slusser wrote:

... Just like to size a softener although my good buddy h20man denies that you have to pay any attention to that...

The stalking and slander continues... If nothing else, this guy is predictable.

Acrossenger, wants to know about tankless H2O heaters. Stay on topic MAN!

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Ragman wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
It's time for your meds and a nap - you are getting cranky again

I'm not sure that you guys are aware...but you're becoming good theater here.

I figured that was the sole reason the exchanges were allowed to continue.

Pop some corn, grab a cold beverage and enjoy the show

H2O_MAN,

I thought you were just looking to join Gary's ex-wives club :wink:

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Tank less water heaters
I wasn't implying anything in regard to internet dealers and/or local independent dealers. I have been researching tank less water heaters for the past several months and have found that according to the manufacturers of some of the leading brands, the bad rep that these systems have in the industry is due to the fact that in the early years of selling tank less water heaters in the US, anyone could buy and install one of their heaters which resulted in problems and hence the bad reputation. I'm just sharing what I have read. I am a licensed contractor in Ohio and I have come behind many DIYers and have had to replace their work. I am not against the DIYer, but people have to know their limitations. I have been performing plumbing work on my rental properties for the past 25 years as is permitted in Ohio, but I then have to pass an inspection. I know the code and I install per code but not all DIYers do this. The term "good enough" is not in my vocabulary. This cannot be said of many people. I understand why these manufacturers are doing this I just don't necessarily agree with the total process. The consumer is not prevented from buying the unit, they just have to have it professionally installed. We are all smart enough to understand that this is also their way of getting "Plumbers" to endorse their products and talk them up. I am all for buying quality products at wholesale prices, some things or some people should then have a professional install it. I can see both sides of the argument.

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Re: Tankless water heater

Gary Slusser wrote:

Water softeners sold online or by many independent local dealers do not have that requirement/problem. Any softener or other water treatment equipment, or tankless water heaters, that have the requirement are attempting to prevent sales to DIYers to protect the dealer/plumber, and I suggest you find another piece of equipment that doesn't have the requirement, or pay them for their installation.

Around here (and many other localities) code requires the installation of a water softener be made by a licensed plumber. That any water softener seller advocates self-install if the customer's locality requires a permit or installation by a licensed plumber borders on conspiracy to violate the law so it is the responsibility of the customer to protect themselves by researching that thoroughly. There's a big difference between "anyone can install a water softener" and anyone MAY install a water softener.

Water heaters, tank or tankless, require a permit and installation by a licensed plumber and if natural gas or LP that plumber must hold a gas and/or LP license also.

I know of a homeowner who lost a sale on his home when forced by the plumbing inspector to have his tankless water heater, gas line, and vent removed because he did-it-himself. That was regardless of whether the installation met code or not. There had been no permit pulled and installation was not done by a licensed plumber with a gas ticket. Then he had to hire a licensed plumber with a gas ticket, who pulled a permit, and installed the tankless water heater, gas line and vent.

Best to check the legal and or code requirements.

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A.... we were talking about voided warranties but yes, anyone installing their own softener should follow local codes.

But I'd have to read the code before I'd believe a plumber is required to install every softener and that a homeowner is not allowed to install their own softener.

Please post a URL or copy of the 'Albuquerque NM code' that says that.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

I'd have to read the code before I'd believe a plumber is required to install every softener and that a homeowner is not allowed to install their own softener.

I've never read the code. I simply called up CID a few years ago and asked. I was told that a licensed plumber was required along with a permit.

I did not think to rephrase the question to "can a homeowner install a softener"? I know that around here a homeowner can do certain work to certain levels in their own home IF they pass a test, pull the permit, and pass inspection.

I also asked a plumbing inspector I met at a building site and he said the same thing. I don't know if it is state code, city code, or county code.

I was curious so I called a few of the large water treatment companies and asked if they has a licensed plumber to do installations and they all said "yes, and we pull any necessary permits".

If what I was told is not true then I was consistently misinformed.

I know there are MANY water heaters installed everyday by homeowners and handymen/handywomen that aren't licensed plumbers and no permit is pulled but that doesn't change the fact that the code requires a licensed plumber with a gas/lp ticket (if it's a gas/lp heater) and a permit.

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So if you weren't asking about a homeowner installing their own softener, what were you asking about in relation to installing softeners?

Anyway, I see the story changes now when we get into specifics concerning a homeowner installing their own softener instead of a gas fired water heater although, as usual with you, you make it sound much different the first time around.

I would think that possibly dealers outside Albuquerque, or not selling into the city limits, are not under the same plumber on staff requirement.

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Bosch Tankless Waterheater
I have been messing with the Bosch 2400E for several weeks. It does not work. Bosch tech support is a joke. They take your number, then claim you never called. You wait for over an hour to get through again. You do all the things they suggest: plumber come and test this, gas company come and test that, unit still does not work. Bottom line, this unit is going back to Lowes and a traditional one is coming back in.

It thumps and rumbles, will not service one hot water outlet at a time without going hot and cold.

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Re: Bosch Tankless Water Heater

Acrossenger wrote:

Hello. Have anyone used or heard review on Bosch AquaStar Tankless Water Heater 2400E NG? I am thinking to get one with my new water softner. Is it worth the investment?

I have been messing with the Bosch 2400E for several weeks. It does not work. Bosch tech support is a joke. They take your number, then claim you never called. You wait for over an hour to get through again. You do all the things they suggest: plumber come and test this, gas company come and test that, unit still does not work. Bottom line, this unit is going back to Lowes and a traditional one is coming back in.

It thumps and rumbles, will not service one hot water outlet at a time without going hot and cold.

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"Water heaters, tank or tankless, require a permit and installation by a licensed plumber and if natural gas or LP that plumber must hold a gas and/or LP license also."

I live in The Peoples Republic of California, and they still let us do our own plumbing. Permits, yes, but you can still do it yourself.

Guess it could be Oregon, not even allowed to pump your own gas!

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Bosch 2400E
I have had an older model installed for about 5 yrs now and love it. The newer model is almost identical. I actually found a good price on a remanufactured unit at www.houseneeds.com. They have the same warranty as a new one.

Here is the link to where you can find one...

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/specials/specialitems1.htm

They were very imformative about this product too.

The fuel savings is great 30 to 40 percent over a tank type water heater and I never run out of hot water either.

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Bosch Vs Rennai
Let me tell you a little story that I hope will help. I am a HVAC Tec in Ontario for over 25yrs now and licenced in three trades. I've installed pretty well anything you could think of. Last year, our company decided to start installing Tankless water systems...so I went off to be certified in installing them. let me tell you...I was not a big fan... Our service Dep is constantly bitching about how shitty they are..so.. If services sez there ****...there ****. A company came in to do a presentation.. " Rennai ", they claim to hold over 75 percent of the worlds market for this kind of system.. impressive but not convinced. Today..I installed one!! I removed a Bosch 2400e ( the second on the Cx has had installed in two years) and replaced it with a Rennai. I tried so hard to get this thing to hick up...flawless. .. I'm sold.. this thing is got to be the most impressive peace of equeptment Iv ever installed. As for the new Bosch, the Cx had me toss it in the trash.

Just My opinion
Ric

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Bosch Tankless Water Heater

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