Is rape a "hate crime"?

I think the distinction between what you are saying and Set's point is that people aren't arrested/convicted for merely "thinking". There has to be some act pointing to the furtherance of a crime that they are arrested for.

You can think about killing Mr. B. when you find his dirty socks on the floor (again!) and there is no crime in that. If you buy a gun or hire a hitman or write out your plan however, you've acted even if the end crime itself hasn't happened and you CAN be arrested/prosecuted for that. This is beyond "thinking" though... You wouldn't be punished for your thoughts. You'd be punished for your acts.

So if I write in my personal journal "I could just kill Mr. B" -- then it's a crime?

No, it's not. You would have to take actions which a reasonable person (twelve of them, in fact) would consider to have murder as the end result.

It would take considerably more than that (anty rationale DA or judge would see that as a simple sign of momentary frustration) but as an example, there was a peadophile out on probabtion not to long ago who wrote (and drew I believe) about molesting children in his personal journal. It was found in a search of his residence by his probabtion officer and used as evidence to send him back to prison. There was no evidence that he actually had molested any children since his release but his writings were evidence of a plan to do so.

Your ass is grass. <snicker>

So then.... wasn't he sent back to jail for a thought crime?

The mass rapes of Bosnian women and girls by Serbs was surely a hate crime in my book.

No. He was sent back to jail for being in possession of kiddie porn.

But it was kiddie porn that he himself drew?

That sounds like a thought crime to me.

Also, I was thinking about my extensive legal knowledge gained by watching Perry Mason and reading the newspaper and I was thinking about those situations where the court thinks that the criminal is likely to reoffend so the ask for a long sentence or no bail or whatever.

Isn't that, in a way, an assumption of what someone might think in the future?

I think this stuff is too complicated. I don't know how anyone ever figures out law.

I think the confusion for many is the term "tought crime" itself. The concept means that the "crime" exists only within the mind of the person.

So let's, just for fun, follow through on that. You think a criminal thought.

Now, who (besides yourself) knows that you had the thought? Who is going to report that you had the thought to the appropriate authorities? What would those authorities use as some sort of probable cause to investigate/arrest you? What evidence would be presented to a trial?

Even if someone else was aware of your thought, a judge and/or jury would have to be convinced that the thought had been there and be able to make a judgement that teh thought was in fact, criminal. So the DA would have to present their case at trial and then your lawyer (Perry Mason himself! ) would put you on the stand and ask you "Ms. Boomerang, did you or did you not have the thought you are accused of?" And you, under threat of execution, would say "No!". Perry would the immediately turn to the judge and request a summary dismissal due to the State's lack of evidence which would be granted and you'd walk out of the courtroom a free woman again.

A true "thought crime" can't exist at this point in time because we have no way to capture an actual thought from someone as the fictional Thought Police had in 1984. Even if there were such laws, there is no way to prove that the crime happened. It seems pretty futile to prohibit something that could never be proven.

Whether someone may or may not re-offend in the future isn't determined based on thoughts. The court would have to look at past acts and attempt to use them as a predictor of possible future offenses.

I can see that my definition of "thought crime" is way too broad in that I was including some sort of action -- even if it wasn't a criminal action in and of itself.

Up kinda early, aintcha, Boom?

Nah, I'm a worm stuffed early bird.

I used to be that there kinda early bird too, once't . . .

I love getting up early when the world is quiet.

Plus, my mommy arrives today! I've got some last minute cleaning up to do so she won't think I'm certifiably crazy.

On second thought.... an asylum vacation sounds really doable right now.