Utopian society: is it possible and what would it take?

yes, ive been begging my work to update their damn computers, i cant handle this! k/b broken, fixed, lag, fixed, now my mouse is on crack. hooray.

0 Replies

Study your economics and your history my friend.

What is wrong with you paying me for something that I have and you want Question

Whether it's my time, talent, or property your desire for it imparts a certain value to it. If it has is valuable to you then conversely it must be valuable to me. Without some sort of quid pro quo why should it ever change hands Question

Therefore you will be bereft of something that may have much more value to you than me :cry

Unless you allow only your side to have guns, of course Exclamation

But even that didn't work out too well for Lenin and Marx, not to mention a few million Poles and Ukrainians.

The Bolshevik Revolution was probably the most vigorous attempt towards Utopia that ever was. But the Communists had to control the guns. The Hutterites, Amish, and Mennonite comunities have to use a pretty vigorous God to keep them as a community of sorts.

Sorry, humans are not necessarily as I would wish them, but thats the way they are Exclamation

0 Replies

OGIONIK wrote:

So its human nature how we are living now? i dont see any relevance to the topic, if we dont have to fight to survive, we wont fight.

What makes you think that the only reason for peopl eto fight is survival? I'd guess that more wars have been foufght and people have been killed due to boredom than over any survival need.

Quote:

Also i think the barter and trade system suits humanity the best, but our systems arent designed for it so it simply fails.

This is a silly argument that defeats itself. My knowledge and labor are "bartered" for currency which I can use to "barter" for whatever I need/desire. How is "the current system" not setup for it?

People who argue against using a common currency usually do so because they don't have anything (assets, skills or knowledge) that others are willing to pay them for. If someone isn't willing to pay you using currency, what makes you think they'd be interested in what you have to offer in trade for any other item of value?

0 Replies

OGIONIK wrote:

Random thoughts: were native americans a utopian society? IMO they were extremely close.(not having advanced technology doesnt affect whether or not they were a utopian society btw) they didnt "work" they just kept the requirements for staying alive met, without a real government too. And whats funny is that all we have that they didnt is things that make life easier(computers etc..), we are no more better off than they were.

Really? We're no better off??

What was the average life expectancy of the average Native American in say... 1300??? I'd have to guess that it was probably in the mid to upper 20s.

I think most people would accept that 40+ years beyond that is a rather significant improvement in their lives.

0 Replies

Utopia can't be defined, as it is different for any two individuals, or indeed, the same individual on two different days.

Freed food, huh? Imagine telling a farmer there's a glut in every crop he has planted.

If there's plenty of food for all, forever... it's gonna get kinda crowded.

0 Replies

good points.

0 Replies

I can't believe you suggested that the Amerindians enjoyed a Utopian society. On the mainland of North America, yeah, the men laid around growing a spare tire around their waists, but the women worked their asses off from dawn to dusk, and from adolescence to an early death. I guess Utopia, in your view, applies only to the guys.

In the Islands of the Caribbean, the Arawak had life pretty easy--if you ignore the regular raids by the Caribs, during which time they rounded up women if they felt they wanted more, and they killed and ate as many of the men as they could get their hands on.

0 Replies

and am i to assume you are grouping all american tribes together?

O_o

i wont do that. which will make both of our arguments valid.
Yeah threads done for, utopia is impossible, because overcoming human greed is impossible.

A lot of talking for such a simple answer!

0 Replies

Ancient Europeans wrote about Ages of Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Man

There are also many other references to various
types of world ages or Ages of Man in Hopi
(worlds), Mayan (suns) and other cultures of
antiquity. Giorgio de Santillana, the former
professsor of the history of science, mentions
approximately thirty ancient cultures that
believed in the concept of a series of ages and
the rise and fall of history, with alternating
Dark and Golden Ages.

More details about them is found in the Yuga concept of Hinduism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saty_Yuga

Only during Golden Age or Krita Yuga, there will be no wars
and humans live with highest peace. It is not possible to
create an Utopian society in other ages.

0 Replies

Where is the meaning in life if all things are free?

And who is going to work to provide all these free things?

What value will we place on free things?

What happens when there is an ownership dispute of 'free' things?

Who is going to control the distribution of all the free things?

What happens if certain free things are in limited supply?

etc

0 Replies

Cyracuz wrote:

A utopian society cannot be achieved by simply providing adequately for everyone. There is no real shortage of anything, however unevenly distributed.

It does sound a cliche, but the key to a utopian society is peace on earth. And it cannot be achieved by a war to end all wars. The only way is for every last one of the individuals inhabiting this planet to look into themselves and find the seed that breeds, and then pluck it like a weed. Fear is the key. It makes us justify all sorts of terrible actions and laws that in turn create the troubles we have today.

Cyracuz:

Good points.

IMHO - the "seed that breeds" is selfishness!

0 Replies

Selfishness? A balanced selfishness is necessary to utopia. If you don't have any selfishness, then you don't have a sense of self, and where is the utopia in that?

Conquering unhealthy fears isn't possible either, because this type of fear is based on lack of knowledge & understanding. Our knowledge of others can never be complete, and the 'understanding' that flows from what we do 'know' is often misinterpreted by us (ie wrong), due to our differing experiences, values, character, environment, influences, norms etc. Of course we can only try our best Smile

0 Replies

Seriously???

Utopia - no place

Utopia is a perfect society - and we're always going to be want improvments.

To me the only utopia would be a single human in cryostasis looked after by a ridiculously intelligent computer sapience which is bashing up the rest of the universe.

0 Replies

A Utopian society would require all humans to possess enormous and infallible wisdom.

0 Replies

Quote:

Utopia - no place

Utopia exists in my mind from time to time.

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

Given that you'd have to be able to repeal human nature--no, it's not possible.

Set beat me too it.

The nature of man (violent, self-destructive) makes Utopia impossible. We would invent war in Utopia.

That we wittness so much violence and self-destrution has us wondering at Utopia.

0 Replies

Quote:

The nature of man (violent, self-destructive) makes Utopia impossible.

It makes a utopian society impossible, not utopia itself.

0 Replies

A utopian society would be everybody looking out for each other, working hard to create the society together, and getting rid of selfishness. It does not mean perfection would be achievable in my eyes but rather that we could achieve something through honesty and compassion

0 Replies

carrie wrote:

A utopian society would be everybody looking out for each other, working hard to create the society together, and getting rid of selfishness. It does not mean perfection would be achievable in my eyes but rather that we could achieve something through honesty and compassion

Yes, but we can't agree on what Utopia is or should be and that is were the trouble starts. For instance, Who runs Utopia and how do we run it? Do we have laws? Who makes the laws? Who enforces the laws?

The complications of Utopia put us right back where we started.

0 Replies

vikorr wrote:

Quote:
The nature of man (violent, self-destructive) makes Utopia impossible.

It makes a utopian society impossible, not utopia itself.

Utopia (from Greek: no, and, place, i.e. "no place" or "place that does not exist")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

0 Replies

Utopian society: is it possible and what would it take?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know