Abortion discussion

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

in any discussion concerning abortion or parental rights a woman will always reduce a man to a sire, a sperm donor, while elevating herself to Madonna status rather than considering perhaps she might merely be an incubator and milk manufacturer.

Well put.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

how about if the father has the total responsibility for the care of the child for nine months... now the playing field is even., Mom carried it, dad 100% took responsibility for it for an equal amount of time. then if the mother insists on having full custody she gets full responsibility. If the father has say 15% visitation then he pays 15% of the childs expenses, and gets to make 15% of the decisions throughout the childs lifetime.

Fair enough. Fathers have rights too, and I've seen a lot of joint custody regulations lately which I welcome.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

in any discussion concerning abortion or parental rights a woman will always reduce a man to a sire, a sperm donor, while elevating herself to Madonna status rather than considering perhaps she might merely be an incubator and milk manufacturer.

And this after Mother's Day Laughing

Any woman who considers herself as incubator and milk manufacturer
only, should really opt for an abortion should she ever get pregnant.

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Off topic coolwhip, but polar bears and penguins don't live anywhere near each other.

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Coolwhip wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:

Quote:
Or perhaps the father wants to keep the baby, in either case, he has no options, only responsibilities.

He'll share the responsibilities with the mother if she decides to keep the
baby.

No, I meant if the mother wants an abortion and the father wants to keep it. The child still has dna of the father.

Well sorry, you were jumping from the responsibility of child support
to abortion, I didn't know what scenario you were referring to.

Yes, if the woman wants to terminate her pregnancy and the sperm donor
would like to have the baby, then he's out of luck, as it is her body.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
how about if the father has the total responsibility for the care of the child for nine months... now the playing field is even., Mom carried it, dad 100% took responsibility for it for an equal amount of time. then if the mother insists on having full custody she gets full responsibility. If the father has say 15% visitation then he pays 15% of the childs expenses, and gets to make 15% of the decisions throughout the childs lifetime.

Fair enough. Fathers have rights too, and I've seen a lot of joint custody regulations lately which I welcome.

I had custody of bi-polar junior before it was fashionable... it was a long, hard, expensive struggle. it was also best for the cub for me and squinney to have him, so we persisted and made it happen. It was difficult. it was worth it. For all of us.

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Chai wrote:

Off topic coolwhip, but polar bears and penguins don't live anywhere near each other.

except in A2K, where we have shed the bonds of territory and species, and become a true melting pot.

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Chai wrote:

Off topic coolwhip, but polar bears and penguins don't live anywhere near each other.

I get around Smile

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Not allowing abortions, making them difficult to receive (there is always someone, somewhere, willing to do it): it makes you think a little differently about things I would imagine?

If abortion is not a readily available option in a girl/woman's head: how would that change how she thinks about her pregnancy?

I'm genuinely interested. My whole fertile years, I've known abortion is an option and that I would be supported if I chose that.

It is disturbing but not shocking to me when I hear from women who have had several abortions.

I know who I am and what I am about. I know why adoption has never been nor never will be an option for me.

Sometimes I do wonder if my views would be different on that if abortion were not 'taught' to me the way it was. As a viable option. Abortion, contraception, STDs were all taught in one swipe. Adoption was touched on lightly: yet there was never any mention of the kids that went through hell in that process.

Adoption horrifies me more than abortion. That is an emotional, personal understanding of the world as I see it and my own values.

I don't think there is a right or wrong in this. Good can come from any decision. From whom and for what is tricky business.

Yet nowadays it is hard not to see some glaring lack of concern for babies. It may have always been there - but abortion can really put it in full view. A woman says, essentially "My life is as valuable as this fetus I am carrying".

Those who have opted for adoption or to bear the child - regardless of the circumstances she brings that child into and the hell it may be - can fall back on the "best for the child" reasoning. There is shelter in that.

I don't think my thinking would change, but then again, I have never been in a situation where the only possibility that seemed viable - not crossing country, hiding from family and friends, finding a bunch of cash, suffering an abortion as some shameful secret - were to bear the child.

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flushd wrote:

Adoption horrifies me more than abortion. That is an emotional, personal understanding of the world as I see it and my own values.

I don't think there is a right or wrong in this. Good can come from any decision. From whom and for what is tricky business.

*********

A woman says, essentially "My life is as valuable as this fetus I am carrying".

What horrifies you about adoption?

I might not be seeing something, but I know/have known people who've been adopted, and they felt that they belonged in their familiy as much as their siblings who where birthed into the family.

I've known people who have adopted, and their love was no different than if they'd given birth. One couple had no other children, 2 other couples had 1, or 2, and wanted another.

Have you known horror stories, or bad placements? I guess I've just seen the good of it.

hmmm....I'm thinking of one person I knew who gave her toddler (I think) up for adoption. I didn't know her well at all, but in the course of conversation, she would bring up things that bothered me. It was a private adoption, and apparantly it had been arranged that she, the birth mother, would have specific visitation rights. Something about birthdays or some other special occassions. The first time she mentioned going over to see the kid, I thought it was, well, strange. Like I said, we didn't talk much, I was temping @ the time at the place she worked. I do remember getting the distinct feeling that the adoptive parents were trying to wean her off her seeing the kid so often, but this chick wasn't picking up on the vibes (she was a bit of a goofball) I remember her saying something once about how she thought the adoptive parents should be doing something a particular way as far as child rearing, and I remember thinking "You gave up that toddler. You can have your cake and eat it too" From what she was saying about the parents reponse, I think they were getting fed up with the situation too. I'm thinking they regretted the decision to keep her a part of their lives. Frankly, I would have moved away from the area.

I know I'm rambling, but I hadn't thought of that situation in years. What was bad for the kid was getting conflicting messages, not the fact 2 people wanted to raise him/her.

What are the problems you know of/have encountered with adoption?

oh...and your other words about "My life is as valuable as this fetus I am carrying", .....well, yeah...isn't that true?

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Being a mom or a dad has nothing to do with blood or dna.

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If you really want to indulge in the ugly side of adoption issues it is just a few mouseclicks away....

craigslist
discussion forums
adoption

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boomerang wrote:

If you really want to indulge in the ugly side of adoption issues it is just a few mouseclicks away....

craigslist
discussion forums
adoption

Ouch, I don't think I want to know! I've had a very successful adoption
with my child, and I am thankful for that. Boomer, aside from our circumstances where the mothers couldn't take care of their babies
for whatever reason, I have the most admiration for any woman who
can step aside and realize that someone else would be a better parent
than her, and the welfare of the child is more important to her then
anything else. I think, this is the most selfless courages thing any
biological mother can do.

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I don't use that forum at all -- ever.

I stumbled across it not long ago while looking at the education forum and clicked in just to see what it was all about.

I've seen some discussions get nasty on A2K and on other boards but nothing, NOTHING, compares with the venom on the craigslist adoption forum.

Honestly I would never recommend that forum to anyone for any reason and I'm not recommending it now. Still, if you want to see how ugly conversations about adoptions can get there is no better place.

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boomerang wrote:

If you really want to indulge in the ugly side of adoption issues it is just a few mouseclicks away....

craigslist
discussion forums
adoption

I'll check that out boom.

I hope you and flushd don't think I'm arguing, I'm sure I'm just not aware of the problems.

I'll be back after checking it out.

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It seems adoption has been taken out of the discussion list....

Confused

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Coolwhip wrote:

Chai wrote:
Off topic coolwhip, but polar bears and penguins don't live anywhere near each other.

I get around

Then I strongly suggest you invest in lots of rain coats or you could always head for the snip, snip ;-)

I'm 100% with Jane on this. It's your responsabilty to protect yourself, regardless of what the girl tells you. You fail to protect yourself, you pay the price.

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You have to click on the words "discussion forums" and "adoption" is the first one on the list.

Really, they should just call it the angry bio-mom, disgruntled adoptee forum.

I think adoption is a GREAT answer to situations where people can't raise their own kids. I would never argue with you about that. I'm a big believer in the beauty of adoption.

I'm just glad I went into it with my eyes wide open.

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I'm curious whether you checked it out or not, Chai.

I've peeked in a couple of times today just to see what the conversation was all about and found that it was just as hateful and spooky as always.

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yeah, I went into it, but didn't even see anyone talking about adoption.

I was having a hard time following it, so said screw it.

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