question about ecowater system

The installed price depends on the dealer and what part of the country you live in.
The prices you list are about average ~ you can accept, negotiate or pass.

The phrase "ripped off" applies only if you are forced into a transaction against your will.

HTH ~

H20,

Thanks for responding. I didn't mean to imply any dishonesty on the part of the dealer; my word selection of "ripped off" was poor.

What I cannot understand is why the price would be so extremely different for my area, South Texas where the cost of living is nowhere near so high as say, San Francisco or New York.

I called the national Eco Water number and was told that, as you say, prices vary by dealer, but even the gentlemen at the "corporate" (?) headquarters was at a loss to explain a nearly $2000 difference in price.

Is there any way to determine a more reasonable (cannot think of a better word) price since no prices are listed anywhere online for these 2 systems? You mention that I could "negotiate," but what would the parameters be so that the dealer receives a fair profit and I receive a fair price?

Thanks.

PM sent ~

Regardless where you live, if you are asked to spend more than say $1600-2000 for an up to 2.0 cuft [64k]) softener from any local dealer to sell and install a softener on whatever hardness content water you have, you are being taken, or "ripped off". Or at least helping them and the manufacturer recover some of their HIGH advertising costs.... I'd rather someone held a gun on me to take my money instead of standing there smiling while telling me how good this thing is for me and my family.

Most of that "ripped off" or being taken type pricing happens with dealers selling national brands like Rain Soft, Ecowater, Hydroquad, Kinetico, General Ionics, and others. There is no reason IMO for their high prices except for excessive profit.

The price should not vary from one sale to another unless there is some special situation in an installation like requiring additional materials and/or time. And you can always ask the salesmen what they are charging for the installation.

I have installed thousands of pieces of equipment like softeners and filters, well pumps and pressure tanks over the last 21 years. Since mid 2002 I have been selling softeners etc. over the internet to DIYers that hire a plumber or water treatment dealer to do their installation if they aren't up for it. Nine out of ten do the installation themselves; it is very simple plumbing (sometimes you don't have to solder) and it takes maybe 2.5-3 hours total. And any tools you have to buy to do it, you get to keep. :wink: The highest price I charge for a commonly sold softener (2.5 cuft [85k]) is $1020.00 and that is a delivered price to anywhere in the lower 48 States. That's a big softener but, I sell larger softeners (up to 4.5 cuft) from time to time. The highest delivered price has been $2000-$2200. The softeners all had Clack WS-1, WS-1.25 or Fleck 7000 control valves on them and you can't get a better quality control valve than the Clack.

Who stands behind and warranties mail order equipment and the 2nd or 3rd party installation?
Who stands behind 2nd or 3rd party service and repair on mix master equipment purchased online?
Who does the consumer hire to correct the problems created by the plumber they hired to install
or service the equipment they purchased from someone they never met?

What a nightmare for the consumer!

All H2O equipment needs service and maintenance - buy locally.

Obviously since you keep asking this, you have no experience of any kind in internet sales and make up things in your imagination while refusing to listen when I explain it to you but.. here we go again.

1. The same as a local dealer, the internet dealer that sold the unit handles warranties.

2. The owner of the unit does the part replacement. I've never had an owner not want to do that. Sometimes I'm on the phone with them when they do it. That's if they need some confidence building.

3. A bad installation? LOL you have to be joking. It's two water line connections, the inlet and the outlet. What are you doing to screw up an installation? I've never had a screwed up installation or any problems with a plumber installing any equipment. But then I send very in depth detailed instructions with instructions to my customer about applying them to the assembly, set up and installation regardless who does it. Some plumbers are hard headed and don't like reading instructions but, I handle that with my prospective customer before they buy, and then again in my instructions. So they don't have problems as you are portraying.

Nightmare huh... go register on my forum and read the Customer Comments forum. Or show me where on the internet you see anyone posting horror stories.

You sure take comments and observations personally don't you? No worries, it's all about you.

Yeah you replied to something I said and it was all out of ignorance of internet sales and service, like you have before. Plus you never have been anything but non-friendly and personal with me but, I'll list some pluses.

There are many positives to buying over the internet. They save tons of bucks. They are intimately familiar with all the components of their softener because they assembly it. They know what they were supposed to have in the tank is in the tank because they put it in the tank. They know how to program the control valve and WHY they do it that way. They have no more softener mysteries to suffer from.

And what they like most, they aren't dependent on a local dealer (or professional handyman/installer) and they can fix the thing themselves when needed.

Your assumptions are way off track.

There are also negatives to buying over the internet, but here are the top 10 reasons for SELLING water softeners on the internet from one's home...

10. You have little or no overhead

9. You have no advertising costs because you can get customers at no cost on other people's forums

8. There are no qualifications or certifications are required to buy from regional wholesale distributer drop-shippers who are only interested in gross sales numbers and don't qualify their customers

7. You don't stock parts

6. You don't do installs or provide service

5. You have a low capital investment... just a computer, internet access, table and chair, phone, and maybe a FAX machine

4. You never actually see what is shipped to your customer

3. You never know if the order is correct or complete until it arrives at your customer's location

2. You don't add value to the product you sell

And the #1 reason for selling on the internet from your home...

1. You have lots of time to roam the net and start off-point arguments with people who try to help others on the self-help forums

Internet dealers have little or no overhead and pass the savings on to their customers.

Personally I have no advertising or marketing costs because I post on forums and Google Groups as I have since Jan 1997. Plus on average I receive and answer 4-5 emails per day and answer 3-5 phone calls from people that read those/these posts.

No one in water treatment is required to be "certified" to do anything or buy from regional or national wholesale distributers but, before anyone can buy anything, they must qualify based on experience and volume of business/purchases etc.. The distributors provide their dealers great support in all aspects of water treatment, and they provide training in conjunction with product manufacturers.

Internet dealers do not have to stock the equipment or parts they sell or have the space and expenses associated with that.

They don't do in person installations or provide on site service but they do no charge tollfree phone support and most have been a local dealer for many years so they have experience in installations and service.

Internet dealers have low capital investment... a computer, internet access, table and chair, phone, and maybe a FAX machine. And they pass on the savings to their customers.

Internet dealers do not have to maintain and pay taxes on inventory. We don't have to see what is shipped to our customers, we know what it looks like but we don't have to know what it looks like because we know whatit does and how it dose it. We do have to order every component part and piece of the shipment and follow up on the order and delivery and keep the customer informed along the way.

We never know if the order is correct or complete until it arrives at the customer's location but... if we were ordering into our inventory, we wouldn't know if the order was complete until it arrived at our local dealership either. In 21 years, it has been very rare to have incomplete or incorrect orders. Our distributors are very good at what they do and how they do it. Usually if an order is in by 2 PM, it's shipped by 5 PM that day or the next.

Compeitition from other internet and then local dealers also adds value to the product we sell by keeping us sharp and prices to bare minimums and only allowing the best dealers to grow. I am very amazed and grateful at the volume of business I have, I really don't know how I could handle more.

And my #1 reason for selling on the internet is that I love helping people and I have been doing that all my life but on the 'net since Jan 1997.

you left out the part about promoting peace in the world and ending hunger

Your welcome

Have you been able to do anything about your H2O yet?

I am absolutely flabbergasted by the wealth of space wasted by the bickering in this forum!

I'm looking for real advice on whole-house water systems here, but I honestly can't tell if this back-and-forth namecalling is an internal joke...? I'm really having trouble getting real info here. And I'm almost afraid to ask because I really dig the EcoWater systems but don't want to ignite another freaky flame war.

I'm (partially) sorry if I seem rude, but seriously, why all the junk posts? I guess I'll stick to the newer threads...

Welcome to A2K.
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My H2O quality improvement career began in 1988 and I have provided free consulting online since 1993.

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