High School Heroes

I did not say Fresco was creepy- I said his statement about google as Sherlock Holmes struck me as "creepy"- and it did.

Actually, I was surprised to read it from Fresco- the only thought I'd ever had about him/her was that s/he was interested in and adept at discussing philosophical theory.

You can make this whatever you want to make it, Setanta. I'm sorry you resent me and think I'm ignorant-but I understand it's within your rights to do so. I hope you also understand it's within my rights to think you're overreacting, and to believe that if a poster doesn't choose to display his address or zip code, it's probably not a good idea for someone else to do it, notwithstanding how many people might feel negatively toward that person. People have rights to their privacy- and to their beliefs and to the right to express those beliefs and ideas no matter how unpopular they might be- or so I thought.

But maybe we really are back in highschool- where everyone has to come to a consensus and follow an agreed-upon course of action toward each and every personality who has the temerity to be different or unpopular.
I'd hate to think that was true- but it goes an awful long way in explaining the state of the world around us.

Have a nice evening.

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Aidan
Detective work is fun. I think it's something in the blood.

As far as learning was people are like here, I haven't found it essential to have personally communicated with them. It's all there in black and white, reading their discussions with anyone.

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Aidan
Detective work is fun. I think it's something in the blood.

Must be.

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As far as learning was people are like here, I haven't found it essential to have personally communicated with them. It's all there in black and white, reading their discussions with anyone.

I'm glad that works for you, and I certainly respect your right to believe that that's the most efficient and effective way for you to get to know people. Who would know that better than you yourself, right?
I think there should be room for everyone to get to know who they want in whatever way they feel most comfortable.
I also think there should be room for people to either choose to reveal or not to reveal what they feel comfortable with. Some people don't want to be known- others do- others don't particularly give a ****.
It's all okay with me.

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In fact, you did not make it clear that what you found "creepy" was the Sherlock Holmes remark, and without that qualification, it appeared to me that you found it "creepy" that Fresco would have checked up on Coberst. In fact, Fresco had simply searched for something which Coberst himself had mentioned more than once in that thread.

aidan wrote:

You can make this whatever you want to make it, Setanta. I'm sorry you resent me and think I'm ignorant-but I understand it's within your rights to do so.

I did not say that i resent you in general, although it may soothe your wounded self-love to so characterize it--i said that i resented you for your remark about Fresco, which is a rather specific resentment. I also did not refer to you as generally ignorant, but only ignorant of Fresco in that same degree that you point out that i am ignorant of you.

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I hope you also understand it's within my rights to think you're overreacting, and to believe that if a poster doesn't choose to display his address or zip code, it's probably not a good idea for someone else to do it, notwithstanding how many people might feel negatively toward that person. People have rights to their privacy- and to their beliefs and to the right to express those beliefs and ideas no matter how unpopular they might be- or so I thought.

As i pointed out, you were not specific about what you found "creepy," and you were ignorant of the basis for the exchange between Fresco and me--and that is why i resented your choice of the term "creepy." If Coberst did not want his zip code displayed, he ought not to have made an issue of "September Scholar," which a web search will reveal as a page about himself, which includes that information, and a good deal more, as well as a photograph of Coberst. If he didn't want that information to be generally known, than he certainly ought not to have so prominently displayed it on the internet. So much for Coberst's right to privacy.

At not time have i suggested that Coberst ought not to express his beliefs and ideas. At the same time, when one's experience of Coberst's expressions of his beliefs and ideas is that he wants agreement, and apostles who will sit at the feet of the master to be enlightened, but does not intend to entertain any disagreement with his beliefs and ideas, he can expect to get a lot of flack for it. Personally, i formed a very low opinion of Coberst from his habit of posting utter rot about history, which he adduced in support of some of his crackpot theses, and which i took the time and trouble (wasted, as far as concerns Coberst) to point out were rot. Coberst has the right to post his beliefs and ideas, and i have as much right to post my belief that they are horsie poop, and that Coberst doesn't want to discuss them, but only wants others to agree--and, i suspect, to hold him in awe for his deep and penetrating wisdom.

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But maybe we really are back in highschool- where everyone has to come to a consensus and follow an agreed-upon course of action toward each and every personality who has the temerity to be different of unpopular.
I'd hate to think that was true- but it goes an awful long way in explaining the state of the world around us.

Have a nice evening.

That doesn't happen to have been my experience of high school, a period in my life when i was not very popular or well-known, and that suited me just fine. I haven't suggested that you adopt my view of Coberst. I do think it worthwhile to point out to anyone in a Coberst thread that what he has to offer is dross, and that all he wants in return is agreement. If you criticize Coberst in one of his threads, if he does not ignore you altogether, he will make it clear that he doesn't consider the responding member to be intelligent enough to understand what he is writing. It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with pointing out to someone the type of person with whom they are dealing. As for "the state of the world around us," that is just the sort of thing Coberst loves to retail, so perhaps you two will get along much better than he seems to do with the majority of people who visit his threads.

I hope that you will have a good evening, as well.

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Simple question Aidan. This isn't an argument.

If you regularly spent time sitting in a room with a bunch of people, and moved from group to group listening to their conversations for extended periods, listening to their opinions on a wide range of topics, would you say you are getting to know them?

If you say no, because you have not engaged them personally, haven't you already had other people ask them the same questions, made the same comments you would have asked or said to them, and listened to their responses?

That's like saying that people who don't like to talk much can't get to know anyone.

Sure there's people here I know little about. But if someone catches my eye and I want to learn about them, I search their posts and read what they think about things, what they've done, etc. etc. I mean you might say you don't know if I'm married or not let's say, but it wouldn't take you long to find out by reading other posts of mine, and that wouldn't be sneaking around.

In fact, if a person jumps in and makes assumptions just from direct interactions, without seeing how they've behaved with others, you're likely to get them all wrong.

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Satanta wrote:

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I did not say that i resent you in general, although it may soothe your wounded self-love to so characterize it

No soothing necessary- at this point in my life, my self-love is intact- no longer wounded- thankfully. I got over that phase in my twenties (having a kid helped-it redirected my focus outward).

In terms of highschool and Coberst- we seem to be perceiving a different reality. I fully grant you your right to yours. Can I have mine, though?

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As for "the state of the world around us," that is just the sort of thing Coberst loves to retail, so perhaps you two will get along much better than he seems to do with the majority of people who visit his threads.

I don't know how he feels about communicating with me, but I enjoy thinking about and communicating with him on some of his topics. But I just "take what I need, and leave the rest" (The Band). I always feel that's appropriate advice in almost every situation I can think of.
What I'm saying is I don't feel compelled to swallow Coberst's views whole sale, and for some reason, I never feel that he's asking me to. Sometimes I feel that he's playing devil's advocate- sometimes I feel that he's looking for other experiences. And yes, sometimes I feel he can't be swayed.
But aren't we all like that on some points sometimes?

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I hope that you will have a good evening, as well.

Thanks, I've found it very interesting. I've enjoyed thinking about Coberst's topic and responding to your and Chai's reactions to him and to me- I always enjoy a little change of pace now and then.

Fresco- for the record- I don't think you are creepy. I also wasn't aware that creepy was such a loaded word-I will be more specific and choose my words more carefully next time.

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Chai wrote:

Simple question Aidan. This isn't an argument.

If you regularly spent time sitting in a room with a bunch of people, and moved from group to group listening to their conversations for extended periods, listening to their opinions on a wide range of topics, would you say you are getting to know them?

If you say no, because you have not engaged them personally, haven't you already had other people ask them the same questions, made the same comments you would have asked or said to them, and listened to their responses?

That's like saying that people who don't like to talk much can't get to know anyone.

Sure there's people here I know little about. But if someone catches my eye and I want to learn about them, I search their posts and read what they think about things, what they've done, etc. etc. I mean you might say you don't know if I'm married or not let's say, but it wouldn't take you long to find out by reading other posts of mine, and that wouldn't be sneaking around.

In fact, if a person jumps in and makes assumptions just from direct interactions, without seeing how they've behaved with others, you're likely to get them all wrong.

Chai, I'd say you can get to know them to some extent. But- and it's a big but for me- in my experience, everyone interacts differently depending on who they're interacting with. My friends know me differently than any of my acquaintances do (which is what I'd classify most everyone of the people on this forum in relation to me). And I think that's true because my friends know why I might say the things I do about certain subjects. They know what has happened in my life, what influences have shaped my thoughts and ideas, where I come from, where I want to go.

I happen to enjoy not just knowing what someone thinks- but also what has helped to form those thoughts- what in their lives has led them to whatever place they're in.

I fully accept that others don't need to know those things. I also fully accept that no one has to tell me those things if they don't want me to know them, just like I don't have to tell anyone I don't want to know me, anything about myself- other than what I think.
But in answer to your question- I think I particularly can get to know people by talking to them moreso than by reading what they say to someone else.

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Setanta and Aidan,

Interesting exchange !

Setanta is correct in that "coberst of Franklin NC" has linked to his own "Chuck Oberst" website on several of the dozen or more forums he is blitzing. A google search on "C. Oberst" reveals further details.

My Sherlock Holmes reference was prompted by my concurrent recreational listening to nightly BBC Radio episodes of his "Case Book". (Which can be found here )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/tuesday

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Why is coberst concentrating on high school?

How old would you say he is?

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aidan wrote:

Coberst- do you live in Franklin, NC?! I lived at various times in Asheville, Swannanoa, and Black Mountain, NC and I babysat for people in Franklin and Hendersonville. I worked at Camp Green Cove in Tuxedo for a couple of years. I love that area of NC- Lake Lure, Bat Cave. Beautiful area of the country...

or was Fresco referring to something or someone else?

I moved to Franklin NC about six years ago. The climate here in the mountains is much better than Oklahoma and Texas where ilived much of my life.

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I moved to Franklin NC about six years ago. The climate here in the mountains is much better than Oklahoma and Texas where ilived much of my life.

Yes, the climate is wonderful there. Speaking of where I've been and where I might go, that's one of the areas of the country in which I spent one stint of the happiest five years of my life, and actually have always seen myself returning to when it's time for me to retire.

In terms of your heroes idea Coberst, especially in light of what happened in Virginia (only last week- it seems like so much longer ago) highschool is a good illustration of how it works. Status is so clearly delineated in that atmosphere and reactions and interactions are usually either black or white. There's very little grey or room for nuances. That's why the responses are sometimes so extreme.

But I think people can, should, and sometimes do move beyond basing their evaluation of their self-worth on purely outside sources. Or if not that- learn to differentiate between whose perceptions are truly of value and whose aren't.
At this point- it would effect my self-worth if my students (who are pretty much anti-heroes in society's estimation-let's put it this way- I teach in a room equipped with a panic button) were to tell me they thought I was an ineffective teacher. Or if my children said they thought I wasn't a good mother to them, or if my friends said I wasn't a loyal or caring friend, or if my parents or siblings said I wasn't a good daughter or sister, etc.
But I've gotten past basing my self-worth on empty comparisons with others.

But back to Warren Wilson College. Check out their elderhostel program. They always have other really interesting stuff going on throughout the year- programs about mountain music and culture- MFA readings- they're a small alternative school but they've produced amazing writers and thinkers. One of the reasons I think about retiring to the area you're in now is because of the proximity of WWC. It's full of free-thinkers- and I happen to know some awesome ones (who are probably around your age) are still there. They were professors of mine, whom I'm still in touch with- and I know they're still active in the community.
The other reason I'd think of retiring there is those blue/purple mountains. They felt like home to me, the first time I saw them, looming on the horizon when I was seventeen years old.

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all i know about high school heroes can be summed up in one sentence

save the cheerleader, save the world

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/original/timsales-artwork.jpg

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Aidan,

As far as I am aware this particular forum (philosophy and debate) is not normally used for "social therapy". I have challenged coberst several times on his issue of "self-esteem" from the philosophical point of view because he himself has cited authors (Bohm) who see that topic as intellectually trivial, yet coberst has failed to respond. Instead he (the self proclaimed "critical thinker") quotes simplistic psychoanalytic sources that any psychology undergraduate must learn to critically analyse if they are to pass year one.

The point is, we would all like coberst to participate in these threads instead of "inflicting them" on us like a neighbour boring us with his holiday photos. The truth is that his intellectual "exploits" merely highlight a lack of supervised/structured direction even though he considers such a mode to be a virtue. Of course for him to admit as much would be painful given the "effort" he has put in to accumulate his "collection".

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Aidan

I have not established much of a social life since I moved here. I am 73 and do not circulate in society to the extent to which I had been. I moved here from Dallas about 6 years ago.

It takes a very strong character to go against the values of society that surround us. I suspect it is a sign of maturity when we begin to do so. Of course, the values that we have accumulated are the values of our society and we only modify them as we become more thoughtful and confident in our self.

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fresco

I do not want to join in the standard mud wrestling routine that goes on in so many of these threads. When someone starts immediately with personal attacks I back off.

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coberst,

No....that's not acceptable !

You have posted pedantically on multiple forums and received similar criticism from all sides. I meet regularly with guys of your age and older who are not professional philosophers yet are able to structure a formal balanced paper on a philosophical topic for a 2 hour debate. To parody your esteemed Socrates... a thought (life) unexamined is not worth having (living).

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fresco wrote:

coberst,

No....that's not acceptable !

You have posted pedantically on multiple forums and received similar criticism from all sides. I meet regularly with guys of your age and older who are not professional philosophers yet are able to structure a formal balanced paper on a philosophical topic for a 2 hour debate. To parody your esteemed Socrates... a thought (life) unexamined is not worth having (living).

You appear to be unable to post without introducing an ad hominem.

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...point taken ..but only in the rare cases of those who purport to be what they are not.

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Fresco wrote:

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As far as I am aware this particular forum (philosophy and debate) is not normally used for "social therapy".

I'm truly trying to understand here, so please don't inject any sarcastic tone into anything I write, as I haven't written it with that tone in mind at all.
This statement (the one that I've quoted from you) makes me think that maybe part of the problem you have with Coberst and what he does is the placement of his topics. Is that true? Would you find them more acceptable, or should I say, less bothersome, if they were not in philosophy and debate, because you believe they don't constitute true philosophical discussion?
I do wish there was a psychology section myself, and have often wondered why there isn't. Is it your feeling that Coberst's essays or topics would fit more readily into another forum? If so, which one (of those that are available to him)?

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I have challenged coberst several times on his issue of "self-esteem" from the philosophical point of view because he himself has cited authors (Bohm) who see that topic as intellectually trivial, yet coberst has failed to respond. Instead he (the self proclaimed "critical thinker") quotes simplistic psychoanalytic sources that any psychology undergraduate must learn to critically analyse if they are to pass year one.

But isn't it his choice who he reads, what he gleans from it, and what he chooses to communicate? Why should he fulfill your expectations with his free time and studies? Unless you're his tutor and giving him assignments for which you will give him a grade, your opinion of his studies are just that, an opinion. If you've made that known to him already, what's the point of going over and over it again and again?

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The point is, we would all like coberst to participate in these threads instead of "inflicting them" on us like a neighbour boring us with his holiday photos.

This is open to individual perception. You don't have to be exposed to any infliction of anything. If you're feeling inflicted upon-it can only be because of the choice you made to once again have it inflicted upon you.

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The truth is that his intellectual "exploits" merely highlight a lack of supervised/structured direction even though he considers such a mode to be a virtue.

His model of individual, solitary learning is not one I would choose. I do enjoy the stimulation of a classroom or group of people with a similar interest and the expertise of an instructor. But that's just me. Coberst obviously feels differently.

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Of course for him to admit as much would be painful given the "effort" he has put in to accumulate his "collection".

Or maybe he just disagrees with what you're saying.

Coberst wrote:

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I have not established much of a social life since I moved here. I am 73 and do not circulate in society to the extent to which I had been. I moved here from Dallas about 6 years ago.

Coberst, I don't know your situation in terms of mobility, etc., but as I said there are a lot of opportunities for intellectual and cultural stimulation at WWC which is within twenty miles of you. It's right off US70 after you pass the Best Western on the left about midway between Asheville and Black Mountain. I looked on their schedule and they're having a weeklong Elderhostel gathering on the music and culture of Appalachia in July. Check it out. Laughing

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