Virginia Tech Debacle/ Work of a Deranged Man............Or

Ok, it is possible that the vest was something like a fishing vest. However, I think that the evidence so far leaves little doubt that he was wearing a vest which was filled with loaded magazines which he took with him to the scene.

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Having been a creative writing teacher, I find this info quite disturbing-
Va. Tech gunman writings raised concerns By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer
24 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was identified Tuesday as a English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old senior, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.

The rest of the story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

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Quote:

The press has revealed that the shooter was an Asian, but has said nothing more about him. Why haven't all sorts of information about him been disseminated? Didn't he have any friends? Classmates? Are facts being hidden from the public?

After the legal/media mess with the Duke lacrosse team, I'm guessing that the police, the college and the media are being very careful about what information is released.

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Re: Virginia Tech Debacle/ Work of a Deranged Man...........

Phoenix32890 wrote:

There are things about the Virginia Tech killing that has me scratching my head.

The press has revealed that the shooter was an Asian, but has said nothing more about him. Why haven't all sorts of information about him been disseminated? Didn't he have any friends? Classmates? Are facts being hidden from the public?

What HAS been said was that the shooter seemed very calm. That flies in the face of a picture of a deranged shooter. His actions, killing many people, were obviously random and deliberate, calcualated to cause as much damage as possible. What kind of person would do that?

It really bothers me that one person had the ability go into a public area and foist so much carnage. Sound familiar? Are we safe from others who might do something similar?

It took quite a while for the police to ID the killer, because he shot himself in the face. It's been said on the radio that the killer was a South Korean, who apparently got his student vias via China.
The young woman killed in the dorms was reportedly his former lover.

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sozobe wrote:

stuh505 wrote:
A crime of passion is committed against a person whom passion is felt for. Not the case here.

Yes, a crime of passion is committed against a person whom passion is felt for, but which is rejected. It's the rejection that hurts and especially, when the killer thinks he's superior to the new lover.

Hurt is a more powerful emotion then is resumably erotic passion.

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Really? And you say that based on what?

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Miller wrote:

Yes, a crime of passion is committed against a person whom passion is felt for, but which is rejected. It's the rejection that hurts and especially, when the killer thinks he's superior to the new lover.

Hurt is a more powerful emotion then is presumably erotic passion.

Well, that's what a crime of passion is! A crime in which one person has passionate (eg, strong) emotions (usually unrequited loved) towards another, which is typically most strong after rejection of some kind

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The shooter had an imaginary girlfriend.

He stalked three female students on campus, but had a relationship with no woman on campus. Or anyone else. No friends. No girlfriends.

He was sufficiently strange that his English professor did not feel safe with him in the classroom. She spoke with the department head, who tutored him privately. She eventually had a guard attend the sessions.

He was briefly treated when he voiced thoughts of suicide to one of his roommates.

His writing reveals tremendous anger--especially toward male authority figures.

He slept with the lights on in his room.

How do I know all this? CNN had an interview with his roommates and one of his professors--the one who tutored him. She tried to get him to go to counseling. She said she tried to alert people to what she believed was a danger. Problem was, these were her feelings. He hadn't done anything.

One of the stalking incidents was reported to the police, but nothing came of it. None of his stalking victims pressed charges.

He never once had a visitor in his room--male, female, adult. Nobody.

He rarely spoke.

He usually wore a hat and dark glasses.

That's all I can remember.

I don't know how serious the stalking issue was. But you can't arrest somone for not talking, writing scary things, keeping the lights on in his room, and acting strange. There was certainly indication that this was a disturbed person. But was there enough for him to have been stopped before he did anything?

He was sufficiently lucid to attend classes, keep his grade point average at an acceptable level, and function in basic and essential ways.

How could he have been stopped?

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Roberta wrote:

I don't know how serious the stalking issue was. But you can't arrest somone for not talking, writing scary things, keeping the lights on in his room, and acting strange. There was certainly indication that this was a disturbed person. But was there enough for him to have been stopped before he did anything?

He was sufficiently lucid to attend classes, keep his grade point average at an acceptable level, and function in basic and essential ways.

How could he have been stopped?

There were also other things in his recent past that have come to light that fall right in line with the items you listed.

He didn't need to be arrested to be stopped. There are proceses in place to force a person to submitt to an evaluation of theirr mental state by State authorities.

Had that been done (and the attempted suicide should have been an automatic qualifier IMO) and teh State officials done their job, it would have been reported and noted in the NCIC database and when he went to purchase those guns he would have been refused. Of course he may not ever even have come to that point if they had found him to be mentally unstable and got him proper treatment.

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stuh505 wrote:

Miller wrote:
Yes, a crime of passion is committed against a person whom passion is felt for, but which is rejected. It's the rejection that hurts and especially, when the killer thinks he's superior to the new lover.

Hurt is a more powerful emotion then is presumably erotic passion.

Well, that's what a crime of passion is! A crime in which one person has passionate (eg, strong) emotions (usually unrequited loved) towards another, which is typically most strong after rejection of some kind

Miller and stuh - not necessarily.

passion
NOUN:
A powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger.

Ardent love.
Strong sexual desire; lust.
The object of such love or desire.

Boundless enthusiasm: His skills as a player don't quite match his passion for the game.
The object of such enthusiasm: Soccer is her passion.
An abandoned display of emotion, especially of anger: He's been known to fly into a passion without warning.

Archaic: martyrdom

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Thanks, fishin. I didn't know that.

However, if he wasn't institutionalized and was sufficiently determined, isn't it likely that he would have been able to obtain a gun through illegal means?

With all that was going on with him, would he have been institutionalized if attention had been paid?

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Roberta wrote:

Thanks, fishin. I didn't know that.

However, if he wasn't institutionalized and was sufficiently determined, isn't it likely that he would have been able to obtain a gun through illegal means?

With all that was going on with him, would he have been institutionalized if attention had been paid?

I can't speak to how "likely" it be would have for him to get ahold of a gun through illegal means. Sure, people do it but I don't know that he had the means to do so. This guy didn't talk to or associate with anyone apparently. I don't know if he'd know where to even start looking for one that way. It'd all be a guess one way or the other.

My guess is that he would have been institutionalized for a short period of time (14-30 days) until an accurate diagnosis could have been made and then released into a doctors's care with appropriate perscriptions. I don't know about today but 20 years ago a suicide attempt would be an automatic 48 hour stay in a hospital mental health ward for evaluation.

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I believe he was in the hospital (or somewhere) for two days after the suicide threat.

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Yeah, I just found this in this morning's update on CNN:

"In retrospect, Cho had exhibited "big warning signs," Andy said. But he was so quiet, the roommate said, "he was just like a shadow."

Cho spoke of suicide after police investigated his involvement with a female student, Andy said.

"I told the cops that. And they took him away to the counseling center for a night or two," the roommate said."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/index.html

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Perhaps this has already been discussed but, reading this morning about his angry and violent writings in English class against specific professors and taking "inappropriate" photos of unsuspecting women on his cellphone seems ground for dismissal from the school at least, IMO. If not more.

I smell lawsuits.

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I just mentioned on the other main thread that I keep getting confused between these two so I don't remember if I discussed it here or there -- but when I was an English major I read many, many violent and inappropriate stories from (especially) young men. I don't think every single one of those men were bound for violent acts, and I think it's prohibitively difficult to locate the line. I wouldn't have thought it fair if my classmates had been thrown out of school for what they wrote.

Perhaps a certain nexus of warning signs could add up to something, I don't know.

It's sounding more like the failing was with the people who dealt with him after his suicide threat -- I dunno.

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sozobe wrote:

Perhaps a certain nexus of warning signs could add up to something, I don't know.

That seems to be how things are shaping up as more and more comes out. The dots all seem to have been there but no on connected them.

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sozobe wrote:

I just mentioned on the other main thread that I keep getting confused between these two so I don't remember if I discussed it here or there -- but when I was an English major I read many, many violent and inappropriate stories from (especially) young men.

I can understand that but when specific professors are named, specific people, I see that as more than just a harmless exercise in fiction writing. So did his English professor. Enough to have additional security in the class when this boy came in.

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Virginia Tech Debacle/ Work of a Deranged Man............Or

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