Virginia Tech Debacle/ Work of a Deranged Man............Or

The single most upsetting item from this whole story for me was the fact that the Israeli professor was a holocaust survivor and was killed while trying to save his students. That seems odd to me - that this is was upsets me most. Not the loss of all that brilliant combined mind-power, not the young budding lives, not the suffering of the killer before he lost it, not his family's pain......but the holocaust survivor......

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littlek- I can certainly understand how you are feeling. Damn............the man goes through a living hell, gets his life together, and makes a wonderful career for himself. Then his life gets snuffed out at random by some crackpot.

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If it is any consolation, Miss Kay, you might consider that it was a very good thing that he survived the European holocaust, in that he was then able to give his life for the good and sufficient purpose of saving those young lives.

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I hope he did save some of the students.

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That's what all of his students seem to say. That will be a comfort to his family, I'm sure, in years to come.

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He saved a lot of them. I saw an interview with one who thought he was the last one out of that class room alive. Cast iron bravery.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

He saved a lot of them. I saw an interview with one who thought he was the last one out of that class room alive. Cast iron bravery.

Correct. The [British] Jewish Chronicle published a full site about it on Thursday (Friday edition):

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littlek wrote:

The single most upsetting item from this whole story for me was the fact that the Israeli professor was a holocaust survivor and was killed while trying to save his students. That seems odd to me - that this is was upsets me most. Not the loss of all that brilliant combined mind-power, not the young budding lives, not the suffering of the killer before he lost it, not his family's pain......but the holocaust survivor......

littlek, I had the same reaction. To survive the holocaust and to be shot down in a classroom. This has stayed with me. I'm not diminishing the loss of all the others. In fact, I'm staggered by their deaths. But the irony of the situation with this professor has especially affected me.

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Me too (not to pile on). He had such a strong sense - I don't know what to call it - sense of life, in the best way.

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I'm curious about another aspect of this mess.

Does anyone have information about Cho's personal finance situation? I've read he bought and sold on Ebay since 2004, but nothing about where he got his money. The reason I guess I'm curious is because my memories of life as a young college student and all anecdotal evidence I can glean tells me that most college students are pretty broke. He had a couple of handguns more than one computer, and I heard mention of other electronics (fancy calculators and games, etc).

Are these all things the average college student can afford nowadays? Was he from a well-to-do family?

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snood wrote:

Are these all things the average college student can afford nowadays?

Yes, absolutely. Those handguns were in the range of $150 and $500. Computers in the range of $800-1500. A lot of parents are footing the bill for college and that leaves a lot of students with perhaps an irregular or summer income, but without rent and taxes, that's free money!

Another issue here which seems to have been largely ignored is what was done to this boy to drive him over the edge. People can be born crazy, but those without mental problems that go crazy do so for a reason, due to the experiences they've had...from what I hear (which is through hearsay), he came to the US, and experienced a lot of racism and teasing for not being able to pronounce words well, this eventually made him feel very bad about himself and become antisocial. From his perspective it was probably "everyone" that teased him, which explains why he felt like taking out his rage indiscriminantly.

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Even after his death, several Virginia Tech students admitted to reporters that some of the students had
openly joked about his silence and whether Cho would ever speak.

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stuh505 wrote:

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
The diagnosis on this kid is he was a frick'n TOOL, who sounds like Napolean Dynamite and writes like a 7th grade goth kid.

I do concur. On the Napolean Dynamite part, too.

Stuh, I'm a bit bemused by your statement above, contrasted with this one. I suppose in such situations it's normal to fluctuate between disgust and sympathy...?

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Eorl wrote:

stuh505 wrote:
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
The diagnosis on this kid is he was a frick'n TOOL, who sounds like Napolean Dynamite and writes like a 7th grade goth kid.

I do concur. On the Napolean Dynamite part, too.

Stuh, I'm a bit bemused by your statement above, contrasted with this one. I suppose in such situations it's normal to fluctuate between disgust and sympathy...?

We may very well be deterministic machines whose actions are completely based on our genetics and experiences, and in that regard one might say that nobody is truly responsible for their actions, had anyone been put in his place they would have done the same thing. But of course, anyone put in his place, would be definition have to be him exactly. Because of this, I do feel sympathy for the boy who was teased...as I have always felt sympathy for people who are teased and bullied. But I am capable of other emotions too, such as disgust and hate, and once a person crosses certain lines it no longer matters what rational explanation they may have had for their behavior. I am not a computer and I don't deny my human aspect to feel biased emotion; it would be futile to try.

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Thanks Stuh. I always appreciate your candour.

For myself, I seem unable to do other than jump in front of Frankenstein's monster whenever I sense a crowd with pitchforks.

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Eorl wrote:

Thanks Stuh. I always appreciate your candour.

For myself, I seem unable to do other than jump in front of Frankenstein's monster whenever I sense a crowd with pitchforks.

Well, when you show compassion for a murderer you're also showing disrespect to the innocents he killed and the people that knew them.

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stuh505 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Thanks Stuh. I always appreciate your candour.

For myself, I seem unable to do other than jump in front of Frankenstein's monster whenever I sense a crowd with pitchforks.

Well, when you show compassion for a murderer you're also showing disrespect to the innocents he killed and the people that knew them.

Now, I must heartily disagree with that. I think the most good is always derived from having as much compassion as possible for all parties involved. Refusing to allow oneself to even attempt to understand what the murderer was thinking or feeling, in order to avoid offense to victims, is a path of self-imposed ignorance, and at worst, fuels the victims feelings of hate and revenge, and perhaps even makes their journey harder in the long term.

Do you assume the Amish disrespect each other when they, amazingly, show compassion for their attacker and his family?

Also, which path do you think will lead to more opportunites to prevent this happening again, to others?

I'd like to quote the Dalai Lama at this point....."Compassion makes one see the picture clearly; when emotions overtake us, the lack of seeing clearly clouds our perception of reality and hence the cause of many misunderstandings leading to quarrels (even wars)."

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Well I never suggested that we not attempt to understand what the murderer was thinking or feeling...I was the one that brought up the subject!

And as I said, I am sorry that the poor boy was driven to such extremes. However, after crossing that line, all sympathy dies.

Yes, compassion does allow one to see the picture clearly, because it implies understanding why a person did something to begin with, but this can be done without showing compassion as well. Compassion implies extending your heart to that person too.

Every human that does not have a physiological problem with their brain has emotions and has a limit to how much they can take before they come to hate someone. That's just a fact.

So if you show sympathy for someone, you let everyone know that this person has not crossed that line with you. You weren't bothered by their actions enough to reject them. It's OK with you, what they did.

When you don't speak out against atrocities, you are speaking for them.

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snood wrote:

I'm curious about another aspect of this mess.

Does anyone have information about Cho's personal finance situation? I've read he bought and sold on Ebay since 2004, but nothing about where he got his money.

he sold VTech football tickets on Ebay. students could get tickets for free through a lottery. don't remember precisely how much they went for, but think it was around $160 or $170. that could produce some nice pocket change.

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stuh505 wrote:

Well I never suggested that we not attempt to understand what the murderer was thinking or feeling...I was the one that brought up the subject!

And as I said, I am sorry that the poor boy was driven to such extremes. However, after crossing that line, all sympathy dies.

Yes, compassion does allow one to see the picture clearly, because it implies understanding why a person did something to begin with, but this can be done without showing compassion as well. Compassion implies extending your heart to that person too.

Every human that does not have a physiological problem with their brain has emotions and has a limit to how much they can take before they come to hate someone. That's just a fact.

So if you show sympathy for someone, you let everyone know that this person has not crossed that line with you. You weren't bothered by their actions enough to reject them. It's OK with you, what they did.

When you don't speak out against atrocities, you are speaking for them.

I think that is very untrue.

It is perfectly possible to have compassion for a person and also to reject what they did, whatever that means.

I cannot see how the two can be confused, frankly.

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Virginia Tech Debacle/ Work of a Deranged Man............Or

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