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German Jews to split over Russian immigrants?

 
 
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2007 10:52 pm
Quote:
Berlin's Jews face split after dispute over Russian influx


· Traditionalists' disquiet prompts breakaway
· Accusation of Stalinism levelled at newcomers


Kate Connolly in Berlin
Monday April 16, 2007
The Guardian


Berlin's Jewish community was on the verge of splitting last night, after a long-running disagreement between its intellectual wing and newcomers from the former Soviet Union.
Albert Meyer, a former chairman of the community, has announced he is setting up a new group because many members of the community are fed up with what he called "pseudo Bolsheviks who want to turn the community into a Russian club".

Mr Meyer, a lawyer, is backed by the historian Julius Schoeps and other intellectuals who accuse the Russians of employing "Stalinist methods" to influence the development of the community and having no interest in the Jewish faith.

Germany's Jewish community has grown in recent years with most newcomers coming from the former Soviet Union after Berlin relaxed its immigration rules for them in a gesture of reconciliation after the Holocaust. The influx has transformed the community, which has increased about tenfold from 1990 when it had about 23,000 members.

Last year three rabbis were ordained in a Dresden synagogue for the first time in Germany since the second world war.
But while many have welcomed the fact that Germany has the fastest growing Jewish community of any country in the world, including Israel, within the community itself the influx has caused a growing rift.

Tensions have risen in recent years between the established and often socially conservative German Jewish community and the Russian immigrants, many of whom are secular. While the German Jews see themselves as Jewish first and German second, many of the Russian immigrants see themselves as Russian.

They often have little knowledge of the workings of the faith, sometimes not knowing what a rabbi is, and many are poorly informed about the Holocaust.

"We are no longer prepared to accept that the current leadership wants to turn the old, deeply traditional Berlin community into a Russian-speaking cultural club," Mr Meyer told the magazine Stern. "We will no longer accept that a clique made of up egotistical, power-oriented people sometimes employ Stalinist methods to drive away and freeze out all the others who stand for the German-Jewish tradition and the role of the community as a religious community."

Gideon Joffe, the current chairman of the community, declined to comment on the developments.

Mr Schoeps said Russian immigrants were welcome, but they had to fit into the existing, German-speaking community, which included learning the language.

"German should be the accepted language," he said. "It would be unthinkable in the US if Russian was suddenly to become the official language of the Jewish community."

Mr Meyer said he was confident that hundreds of the community's longer-standing members would join his group, having appealed to him to set it up. He said plans for a new synagogue were in the pipeline and he had received promises of financial support.

More liberal members of the community have called for a deeper understanding of their Russian counterparts. In the Soviet Union Jews, who often suffered discrimination, sometimes disguised their Jewish identities and dropped their traditions. Following Germany's invitation to emigrate many fought to have their Jewish identities recognised, while some non-Jews paid large sums to obtain fake papers identifying them as Jewish.




Backstory

Before the second world war, Germany had a population of 600,000 Jews, about half of whom were murdered in the Holocaust. About 12,000 remained in Germany. Immigration from Russia and former states of the Soviet Union since 1990 on the invitation of the German government, has boosted the population to about 200,000, of whom only 105,000 are officially recognised as Jews by the community, because the rest do not practise their faith.

Following criticism from within the community that too many secular Jews were being allowed in, the government recently tightened up its policy, introducing a "point system" to reduce the number of non-religious Jews. Thanks to the revival, Berlin has 10 synagogues, as well as numerous kosher restaurants and shops, Jewish community centres and schools. Of Germany's 120 communities only 20% have their own rabbi, most of whom are over 70. Many congregations fly in rabbis from Jerusalem and elsewhere.

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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 12:01 am
My first reaction on reading the article was: "What took them so long?" My piano teacher in the 1980s was nominally Jewish. She and I would go to concerts in the Hannover's Jewish community hall every now and then. Even back then, the Jews attending these concerts seemed split into two about equally large factions of German Zionist imperialists and closet-atheist Russian immigrants. There was also a handful of orthodox Jews, but they were almost negligible to the other two factions.
0 Replies
 
Tico
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 07:04 am
Interesting.

In about the same time period, early 1990's, Toronto also got a large influx of Russian Jewish immigrants. A large number settled in the north central part of the city (with its already high porportion of Iranian and Korean immigrants, making a very interesting mix). I lived in that area for almost 20 years.

Toronto has a large Jewish population, of every religious variation. Although the Russians were generally poorly regarded, because of their secularism (the result of centuries of marginalization coupled with decades of rigorous religious repression), there seems to be some effort recently to educate them on Judaism and Jewish culture.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 07:11 am
Well, about 30,000 Jews entered Canada from 1981 to 1991, which had a Jewish population of about 300,000 at that time.

Germany only had a Jewish population of about 90,000 .... and 200,000 Russian Jews immigrated out of which roughly 100,000 are officially counted by the Central Council of Jews in Germany as Jews.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 09:49 am
In the latest issue of The Economist is a report about about the immigrants from the former Soviet Union, who are said to transform Jewish life in Germany:#

Quote:
Germany's Jews

Latkes and vodka
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 10:54 pm
It's good to see that native Germans are no longer obsessed over Jews in Germany, and how many are in Germany.

I believe this thread would make a good Monty Python skit, especially the attempt to classify them into genera.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 12:08 am
Foofie wrote:
I believe this thread would make a good Monty Python skit, especially the attempt to classify them into genera.


Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 04:59 pm
Thomas wrote:
My first reaction on reading the article was: "What took them so long?" My piano teacher in the 1980s was nominally Jewish. She and I would go to concerts in the Hannover's Jewish community hall every now and then. Even back then, the Jews attending these concerts seemed split into two about equally large factions of German Zionist imperialists and closet-atheist Russian immigrants. There was also a handful of orthodox Jews, but they were almost negligible to the other two factions.


"Imperialists"? A state the size of New Jersey in the United States can be called imperialists? Imperialists over who? Not the Arab States, not the Palestinians; over who?

What is "nominally Jewish"? How does one become nominally Jewish? Is it like being "nominally Christian," which I have no idea if that can exist? Perhaps, if one was Baptized, but doesn't attend church every Sunday, just on Christmas and Easter?

Why would a Jewish Russian immigrant be a "closet-atheist"? Was it necessary to claim religion inorder to migrate to Germany?

The only thing I'm sure of in your post is that you went to a concert with your piano teacher. That's nice!
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 07:15 pm
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=109908
Things happen
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 07:23 pm
Foofie,

I believe you are being uncharacteristically unreasonable.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 07:37 pm
No George, it's very characteristically of Foofie to be obnoxious - to the
point where even a mild tempered person is tempted to curse him.

He thinks he's the self claimed spokes person for all Jews, unfortunately
he does a real disservice to them. Fortunately we also know that
he's an isolated case...
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 08:02 pm
Well I suppose we are all a bit obnoxious sometimes. We disagree on several issues, but I usually find his posts interesting and occasionally very penetrating. The last page, however was merely belligerent and without foundation or provocation.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 08:36 pm
George, then read the other threads of Walter pertaining to Jews. Foofie made it his mission to be very unreasonable towards Walter, not to mention that his views of the world clearly reflects a narrow minded view of someone who has never seen the world.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 08:43 pm
Well Walter can be a bit picky about details, but I have never seen him to be mean, mean-spirited, or abusive - failings to which I occasionally fall prey. If what you say is so I am disappointed.

Incidently - I recall as a boy in Detroit - which was then quite an ethnic stew - that there was some friction between the German Jews (who in my observation were often more prosperous and acclimated than others) and their Polish & Russian counterparts who tended to be first or second generation arrivals, and, like the rest of us, still working their way up the economic ladder. I don't know if there was any difference in the degree of religious observance, but I do know that they tended to have distinct congregations in synagogue or temple - and that my jewish buddies themselves spoke of the distinction.

Moreover I have myself observed that there is a good deal of this going on now in Israel.

Perhaps contemporary Germany is not at all unique.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 09:08 pm
Yes that's true, George. I have friends from Israel and they also make a distinction between the German Jews, the Russians and even the Orthodox,
however the Israelis say that no one is more "jewish" than the American Jew.

Ephraim Kishon wrote very humorous about all the slight distinctions in his
books; he was most popular in Germany.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 12:13 am
CalamityJane wrote:
Yes that's true, George. I have friends from Israel and they also make a distinction between the German Jews, the Russians and even the Orthodox,
however the Israelis say that no one is more "jewish" than the American Jew.

Ephraim Kishon wrote very humorous about all the slight distinctions in his
books; he was most popular in Germany.


A friend of us is a member of Central Council of Jews in Germany (actually was until last year).
She has the same opinion as above noted .... but clearly not that about the American Jews :wink:
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 12:15 am
Why not. American Irish are more Irish than the Irish. :wink:

(Thinking of Calamity - it might be true of American Germans too.)
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 10:32 am
What gave me away, George? Surely it couldn't have been the sausages that where hanging down from my bag... Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 01:20 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
George, then read the other threads of Walter pertaining to Jews. Foofie made it his mission to be very unreasonable towards Walter, not to mention that his views of the world clearly reflects a narrow minded view of someone who has never seen the world.


What? There's about 13.2 million Jews in the world today out of how many billions of people (six?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

And there are threads on A2K that are so involved in Jews, to the exclusion of all the other people in the world? What makes Jews so interesting, or is it that obsessing about Jews just seems to be a perennial favorite pastime of many a Gentile?

Many times it's not done in a philo-Semitic way, but either in the classic anti-Semitic way, or the subtler Judeo-phobic way (what are they up to?).

Like I alluded to in another post, if one is American, British, or Danish, I enjoy listening to their comments about Jews, since all three countries have a sterling (modern) history of allowing Jews to live with freedom and opportunity. But if someone wants me to listen to someone from Germany, or France (I hear the crowd, "hang Dreyfus"), or Spain, or Russia, or Poland, or any number of Balkan states, or Middle Eastern States, I can only respond, "Do you think I'm stupid or naive?"

Now, let's all say the Pledge of Allegiance, and God Bless America!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 01:25 pm
Well you didn't wear the promised dirndl (no sausages either)! However there was a certain direct and purposeful Teutonic quality to you that, despite your alliance with Francis, resolved all doubt.

I was reminded of a passage from one of the epilogues in War and Peace. Tolstoy, in making some point, which I have long since forgotten, relates an anecdote, proposing that if one were to show a Russian peasant a (then new) steam engine and ask him what makes it run, the peasant will say "There's a devil in there who makes it go". If one then (so the story goes) explains to the peasant that there is certainly no devil in there and then asks him again what makes it run, the pesant will surely say, "Well then there's a German in there".
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