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“ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI”

 
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 06:01 pm
What about is other names, YHVH is the most commonly used word (6500ish times), but Elohim (God) is also used as well (2000ish times). Then theres Qanna (jealous), Adonai (Lord), El Shaddai (God almighty), and El Elyon (High God) plus probably a few others i have missed, one thing is for sure he definately calls himself Qanna (Jealous), which is quite unusal....
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 07:37 pm
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.

Jealousy is not always a bad trait. If someone were to make a move on your significant other, would you not have the right to be jealous?
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 11:33 pm
neologist wrote:
Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".


No NO!

Don't forget the Tetragrammaton was written without VOWELS!
We have no idea of what the word actually is.

Yahweh might be it, but there is no proof for this.

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.
Nothing more and nothing less.


And the meaning behind the word means " the Self existent one "

Please get your meanings right.
O yeah, I forgot YOUR IN A CULT that is teaching you wrong.
Sorry.
From wikipedia:

When Moses asks, in response to the calling of God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" (Exodus 3:13) God responds, "I Shall Be As I Shall Be" or "I Shall Be That Which I Shall Be" . . . (Exodus 3:13) This phrase reveals the meaning of the Tetragrammaton when "I Shall Be . . . " is replaced by the Tetragrammaton: "So shall you say to the Children of Israel, 'I Shall Be has sent me to you'" (Exodus 3:14). "So shall you say to the Children of Israel, 'YHWH, the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you.' This is MY NAME forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation"(Exodus 3:15).

According to one Jewish tradition, the Tetragrammaton is related to the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb . . . (ha·wah, "to be, to become"), meaning "He will cause to become" (usually understood as "He causes to become"). (emphasis mine) Compare the many Hebrew and Arabic personal names which are 3rd person singular imperfective verb forms starting with "y", e.g. Hebrew Yôsêph = Arabic Yazîd = "He [who] adds"; Hebrew Yiḥyeh = Arabic Yahyâ = "He [who] lives".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Meaning


According to the strong's concordance
Entry # 3068 YHWH means self Existent or Eternal.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 11:35 pm
neologist wrote:
Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The Name Jesus, or Joshua or Yeshua means 'salvation of Jehovah'

Many commonly bear the name Jesus or Joshua.

Jesus (Christ) is referred to as "the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places." (Hebrews 1:3)

As to whether JWs are simply a 'marginal non-christian cult' I ask how many of the world's religions are living in harmony with John 13:35?



Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

VERY GOOD POINT.

So why did when I leave the Jehovah's Witnesses did my so called friend not give me back my possessions I left at his house.
When I asked for them this is what he said he did.
" I BURNT THEM "
I had left two pool sticks there.
A blanket with an eagle on it, which is my favorite animal.

WOW Man that was so FULL OF LOVE from him.
And that is exactly how all JW's treat everyone who turns them down.
Time after time after time I see it, every time I turn them down.
So don't even go trying to make your CULT into a religion of love, its not.
JW's religion is no better than the hate cult called Islam.

I have been in many kingdom hall's and heard this same saying over and over again.

Those who are not with us it would be better if they were just DEAD!
Love you say?
LOL
JW's have no LOVE for non JW's

Please give me a break. LOVE IN JW's ROFLMAO.
Somehow I think there may be more to this story, Scott.

Now, why would I suspect that?


No idea.
I just decided that JW's were way off base on doctrine and left.
He then would not give me my stuff back and when I asked for it, he said he burnt it. End of Story.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 11:36 pm
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.


No it's not.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 05:26 am
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.

Jealousy is not always a bad trait. If someone were to make a move on your significant other, would you not have the right to be jealous?


For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous (Qanna), is a jealous God: Exodus 34.14

Hardly exclusive
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:11 pm
BDV wrote:
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous (Qanna), is a jealous God: Exodus 34.14

Hardly exclusive


Well BDV you see in the Kingdom hall's no one is really allowed to give a difference of opinion. They read their watchtowers every week and then read them in service and call it good.

To me it is nothing more than basic brainwashing.
Read on your own.
Repeat in service.
Repeat again to others.

This forces them to a set order with no room for personal experience or opinion on a verse.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 02:44 pm
So more brainwashing, where does it stop, I doubt it ever will, true bible worshippers should be aware of the following and should also study ancient hebrew cause they seem quite confused.

Yhwh

This designation is generally represented by its four consonants.

It was apparently regularly pronounced with its vowels until the destruction of the First Temple. But its pronunciation was avoided from the third century BCE. From then on the Hebrew word consisting of the consonants Yhwh was pronounced 'Adonay' and translated as 'the Lord' although 'Adonay' means 'my Lords'. Hence Yhwh is being translated as 'the Lord'.

The true pronunciation of Yhwh was apparently 'Yahweh', meaning 'He causes to be, He brings into existence'. In the Middle Ages vowel points were added to the consonantal form of the Bible. 'Those used for Yhwh produced the form YeHoVaH and Christian scholars then introduced the name Jehovah.'

So Yhwh, regardless of how you pronounce it, means 'He causes to be'.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 06:47 pm
BDV wrote:
So Yhwh, regardless of how you pronounce it, means 'He causes to be'.


Not according to strong's.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 03:11 am
Yahoo?
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 06:08 pm
Well after looking into the name (YHWH) for a few hours i can now honestly same i have a headache, there seems many a book just on the study of this Tetragrammaton, with no definate answer or anything apart from mistranslation, mistranslation, this is how you really do it followed by mistranslation. Well thanks "what-do-me-call-me" for the thumping pain in my brain.... Maybe a new post should be started on it, but TBH i don't care cause its just a fairy tale anyway......

Scott777ab wrote:
BDV wrote:
So Yhwh, regardless of how you pronounce it, means 'He causes to be'.


Not according to strong's.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 06:46 pm
BDV wrote:
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.

Jealousy is not always a bad trait. If someone were to make a move on your significant other, would you not have the right to be jealous?


For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous (Qanna), is a jealous God: Exodus 34.14

Hardly exclusive
Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.


No it's not.
Is there any other God claiming the name Jehovah?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 06:54 pm
Scott777ab wrote:
BDV wrote:
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous (Qanna), is a jealous God: Exodus 34.14

Hardly exclusive


Well BDV you see in the Kingdom hall's no one is really allowed to give a difference of opinion. They read their watchtowers every week and then read them in service and call it good.

To me it is nothing more than basic brainwashing.
Read on your own.
Repeat in service.
Repeat again to others.

This forces them to a set order with no room for personal experience or opinion on a verse.
Perhaps you refer to the Witnesses strong and unwavering stand on certain moral issues. Can't help you much there, Scott.

But since you don't believe the bible is God's word, you get a pass there, right?

But if you are referring to a stifling of personal opinions, my guess is you were just in a fog.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 09:59 pm
neologist wrote:
BDV wrote:
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.

Jealousy is not always a bad trait. If someone were to make a move on your significant other, would you not have the right to be jealous?


For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous (Qanna), is a jealous God: Exodus 34.14

Hardly exclusive
Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God.


No it's not.
Is there any other God claiming the name Jehovah?


You misread what I said.
You said" YHVH is the only name applied exclusively to the true God."
I said no its not.
YHVH is applied to all three members of the Godhead.
In many OLD versions of the bible when it said "the lord Jesus Christ, many times they put YHWH Jesus Christ."

Now is there proof in the bible that Jesus is indeed Jehovah.
Yes there is.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

Compared with.

Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There can only be one saviour says the LORD (Jehovah).



Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, [that] the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? [there is] no searching of his understanding.

Compared with.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Who created everything, Jesus or Jehovah? Or is Jesus actually Jehovah, thereby being the true creator for both verses!




Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Wow God purchased us with his blood? Do you see the connections yet Neo? Jesus is God in the flesh.

Some more verses for you too look at please and compare.
John 10:30, 38 ; 12: 45 with John 14:7-10 with Col 2:9 with I Tim 3:16.

Deut 32:4 with I Cor 10:4 with Ex 17:6 Jesus is the rock.

Matt 1:23 Emmanuel.. God with us.
I Tim 3:16 God manifest in the flesh.



Is 45:22,43:11 with John 4:42
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.
Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Jhn 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard [him] ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Again the LORD (Jeovah) says he is the Saviour and there is none else, but then we get to the N.T. and Christ is now the Saviour. There can only be ONE SAVIOUR according to Isa 45:22.

If Jesus is not Jehovah, then either Jesus is a Liar, or Jehovah is Liar.


I Sam 2:6 with John 5:21
Sa 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Both Father and Son can raise the dead.


Is 60:19-20 with John 8:12
Isa 60:19 ¶ The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Isa 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Who is the Light Neo? Jesus or Jehovah. Or is Jesus, Jehovah?


Ex 17:5-6 with I Cor 10:4
Exd 17:5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
Exd 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is the Rock Neo? Jesus or Jehovah. Or is Jesus, Jehovah?


Num 21:6 with I Cor 10:9
Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
1Cr 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Who was tempted Neo? Christ or the LORD (Jehovah)? Or is Jesus, Jehovah?




The agreeing verses show that Jesus is indeed the LORD(Jehovah) of the O.T.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 10:28 pm
the LORD 1st mention

More Verses for Jesus being Jehovah.
Gen 2:4 with John 1:1-3

Gen 2:4 is the first the LORD in the KJB by the way Neo.
The very first mention of Jehovah shows him to be creator of the world.

Gen 2:4 ¶ These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Down futher we see.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

This shows that the "made by him" is refering to Jesus.

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
2Pe 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Paraphrase here of 2Pet 1:1
obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of our Saviour Jesus Christ:
obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of our God Jesus Christ:

Do you see and understand what the " God and our Saviour" means now.
Jesus Christ is "God and our Saviour".
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 10:49 pm
Scott777ab wrote:
. . . YHVH is applied to all three members of the Godhead.
In many OLD versions of the bible when it said "the lord Jesus Christ, many times they put YHWH Jesus Christ." . . .
That would be an interesting quote, Scott

But if you don't believe the bible, how can you claim the verses you choose are true?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2007 12:00 am
Are you saying belief must be based on faith?

I've been meaning to ask, given your faith defines your belief systems, why entertain those that challenge it?
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2007 08:56 am
neologist wrote:
Scott777ab wrote:
. . . YHVH is applied to all three members of the Godhead.
In many OLD versions of the bible when it said "the lord Jesus Christ, many times they put YHWH Jesus Christ." . . .
That would be an interesting quote, Scott

But if you don't believe the bible, how can you claim the verses you choose are true?


Just because I have said I don't believe the bible, does not mean I can not clearly see what it says.

And the bible clearly teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are God.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2007 09:11 am
Chumly wrote:
Are you saying belief must be based on faith?

I've been meaning to ask, given your faith defines your belief systems, why entertain those that challenge it?
Good question, Chum. I would have to say that faith is similar to belief but implies loyalty. So it might be more appropriate to say faith is based on belief. If this doesn't make sense, it's because I haven't had my coffee yet.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2007 10:24 am
So would u say blind faith and faith r the same

neologist wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Are you saying belief must be based on faith?

I've been meaning to ask, given your faith defines your belief systems, why entertain those that challenge it?
Good question, Chum. I would have to say that faith is similar to belief but implies loyalty. So it might be more appropriate to say faith is based on belief. If this doesn't make sense, it's because I haven't had my coffee yet.
0 Replies
 
 

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