ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI

Scott777ab wrote:

. . . There is no room for you to aruge with this verse. . .

Right, Scott. Why should I 'aruge' with one who believes in neither the bible nor spell check.

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123rock wrote:

Ahh.. so much stupidity, where to start from...

How is it stupid ? firstly it questions his own divinity, if he is god in the flesh then why talk to a 3rd party about it, also the variation from book to book, surely eye witnesses would have reported exactly what he said, sure his own mother was sitting there. It raises many questions, authenticity of the book, the ability to add bits when you want it connected to the Torah, etc etc

123rock wrote:

Of those the earliest is the Gospel of Luke. The Acts of Pilate were written between 150-200, and the GoN was written sometime in the 2nd/3rd century. The Gospel of Luke is quoted by the early church fathers before 150, so it goes to show who copied who if that's your concern.

Well writing a book over a 100 years after the event doesn't make it correct, it would actually raise many questions, yet Christians tell us its all true and factual, rather than a story about a possible person that's been exaggerated to prove god status and linkage to the Torah. A book obviously not related at all to the Jesus stuff.

123rock wrote:

Please point to me where in Matthew does it say that Jesus died exactly after He said that. John 19:30 might be a candidate for this alleged discrepancy, but it doesn't stress that He died immediately after saying that, whereas Mark and Matthew do. Truly a massive amount of contradictions.

Not really cause I never said he died straight after, all I said was before he died, which is in fact 100% correct. So you are saying he said everything else, and then finally said "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me" before dieing, which raises the point that he is once again talking to himself in the 3rd party, why would he do such things ?

123rock wrote:

Can you please point to me to any gospel besides the four canonical ones written before 100 AD. Thank you.

Carsten Peter Thiede (A non-Christian scholar) claims that he dated a fragment of Matthew to about 60 AD, this though is debatable, any other references are from writers who lived 90-150 ad

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I was reading this, and came upon the part about god being a trinity. Just thought I point out that, this is nothing new, just check out the old celtic beliefs, they had a goddess trinity: the maiden, mother, and crone. Just an interesting bit of information.

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Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
That the gospel writers did not collaborate on what they wrote is more a testimony to their authenticity than to contradiction.

And that only four out of more than one hundred gospels were selected for the bible, and all the rest were burned is a testimony to conspiracy.

All the rest were burned? You mean destroyed without a trace?

How do you know about them if they were destroyed?

They must still be around, eh?

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Perhaps only the ones God wished to protect survived.

In that case, how would you know of the ones that did not?

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skeptical wrote:

I was reading this, and came upon the part about god being a trinity. Just thought I point out that, this is nothing new, just check out the old celtic beliefs, they had a goddess trinity: the maiden, mother, and crone. Just an interesting bit of information.

A really good discussion of the trinity may be found here:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51117&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=trinity

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[quote="BDV]
which raises the point that he is once again talking to himself in the 3rd party, why would he do such things ?[/quote]

Trinity.

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123rock wrote:

[quote="BDV]
which raises the point that he is once again talking to himself in the 3rd party, why would he do such things ?

Trinity.[/quote]Not possible. A perfect reason to reject the trinity doctrine.

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neologist wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:
. . . There is no room for you to aruge with this verse. . .
Right, Scott. Why should I 'aruge' with one who believes in neither the bible nor spell check.

If Spllenig is all taht mtatres to you or anoyne tehn you hvae a seriuos probelm wehn it is a proevn fcat in tsets done that as long as the first letter and the last letter of a word is correct most people can actually read and undersatnd what a word should be. Spelling matters not to me.

The point still stand as is.
Jesus is GOD.

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neologist wrote:

Trinity.Not possible. A perfect reason to reject the trinity doctrine.

Can you please explain these verses:

Job 4:17-19: "'Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his Maker? If God places no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error, how much more those who live in houses of clay, whose foundations are in the dust, who are crushed more readily than a moth!"

There are many more verses such as Isaiah 25:9, etc, that can be used to show that God is our salvation, but I know the usual reinterpretations. There comes a time, neologist, when you either face the facts and admit that your beliefs are void, or you stop using logic all-together. I used to be Orthodox, and I used to claim that it was the only true denomination, much like any denomination, until I saw that it was the same old denomination (largely thanks to Josephus, Against Apion 1.8), so even though I still attend an Orthodox church, my beliefs are those of a plain New Testament Christian. And since especially the Jehovah's Witnesses, along with the Mormons and other marginal Christians have doctrines that mark you as non-Christian, it's wise to examine your group's beliefs as much as possible. The choice is yours.

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The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The Name Jesus, or Joshua or Yeshua means 'salvation of Jehovah'

Many commonly bear the name Jesus or Joshua.

Jesus (Christ) is referred to as "the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places." (Hebrews 1:3)

As to whether JWs are simply a 'marginal non-christian cult' I ask how many of the world's religions are living in harmony with John 13:35?

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Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
Job 4:19 How much less [in] them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation [is] in the dust, [which] are crushed before the moth?

Please use the KJB 123 it is a better English translation.

These are great verses against the JW doctrine.

For is Jesus is Micheal the arch angel, then he is charaged with folly.
Which means to go astray and to be in error.

********************************************
So Neo and all JW's was Jesus ever in Error i ask you?
********************************************

********************************************
What is the foundation of Jesus, meaning when did
he start to exist?
********************************************

********************************************
According to this verse Jesus can not be or become
Micheal the Archangel, remember his angels have
been charged with folly, So if Jesus is Micheal then
you have charged him with folly. Jesus was without
error or folly, and if not then you have no salvation.
********************************************

To the atheist ya I know what your thinking, "Where the heck do you get all the from in that verse."

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

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neologist wrote:

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The Name Jesus, or Joshua or Yeshua means 'salvation of Jehovah'

Many commonly bear the name Jesus or Joshua.

Jesus (Christ) is referred to as "the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places." (Hebrews 1:3)

As to whether JWs are simply a 'marginal non-christian cult' I ask how many of the world's religions are living in harmony with John 13:35?

Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

VERY GOOD POINT.

So why did when I leave the Jehovah's Witnesses did my so called friend not give me back my possessions I left at his house.
When I asked for them this is what he said he did.
" I BURNT THEM "
I had left two pool sticks there.
A blanket with an eagle on it, which is my favorite animal.

WOW Man that was so FULL OF LOVE from him.
And that is exactly how all JW's treat everyone who turns them down.
Time after time after time I see it, every time I turn them down.
So don't even go trying to make your CULT into a religion of love, its not.
JW's religion is no better than the hate cult called Islam.

I have been in many kingdom hall's and heard this same saying over and over again.

Those who are not with us it would be better if they were just DEAD!
Love you say?
LOL
JW's have no LOVE for non JW's

Please give me a break. LOVE IN JW's ROFLMAO.

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neologist wrote:

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

No NO!

Don't forget the Tetragrammaton was written without VOWELS!
We have no idea of what the word actually is.

Yahweh might be it, but there is no proof for this.

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.
Nothing more and nothing less.

And the meaning behind the word means " the Self existent one "

Please get your meanings right.
O yeah, I forgot YOUR IN A CULT that is teaching you wrong.
Sorry.

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Scott777ab wrote:

neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.

Plus it was deemed improper to say the name out loud. So with no one saying the name, and it not being correctly written, led to today's predicament where we actually don't know what it is or how to pronounce it. Yahweh is just a good guess, it could equally be YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaWaaaaaaaH

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BDV wrote:

YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaWaaaaaaaH

LOL you're a nut.

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Scott777ab wrote:

neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

No NO!

Don't forget the Tetragrammaton was written without VOWELS!
We have no idea of what the word actually is.

Yahweh might be it, but there is no proof for this.

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.
Nothing more and nothing less.

And the meaning behind the word means " the Self existent one "

Please get your meanings right.
O yeah, I forgot YOUR IN A CULT that is teaching you wrong.
Sorry.

From wikipedia:

When Moses asks, in response to the calling of God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" (Exodus 3:13) God responds, "I Shall Be As I Shall Be" or "I Shall Be That Which I Shall Be" . . . (Exodus 3:13) This phrase reveals the meaning of the Tetragrammaton when "I Shall Be . . . " is replaced by the Tetragrammaton: "So shall you say to the Children of Israel, 'I Shall Be has sent me to you'" (Exodus 3:14). "So shall you say to the Children of Israel, 'YHWH, the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you.' This is MY NAME forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation"(Exodus 3:15).

According to one Jewish tradition, the Tetragrammaton is related to the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb . . . (ha·wah, "to be, to become"), meaning "He will cause to become" (usually understood as "He causes to become"). (emphasis mine) Compare the many Hebrew and Arabic personal names which are 3rd person singular imperfective verb forms starting with "y", e.g. Hebrew Yôsêph = Arabic Yazîd = "He [who] adds"; Hebrew Yiḥyeh = Arabic Yahyâ = "He [who] lives".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Meaning

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BDV wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.

Plus it was deemed improper to say the name out loud. So with no one saying the name, and it not being correctly written, led to today's predicament where we actually don't know what it is or how to pronounce it. Yahweh is just a good guess, it could equally be YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaWaaaaaaaH

You are quite right, of course. However, you should note that Jehovah is the most commonly accepted English Pronunciation. We currently don't pronounce the name Jesus correctly, either.

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Scott777ab wrote:

neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The Name Jesus, or Joshua or Yeshua means 'salvation of Jehovah'

Many commonly bear the name Jesus or Joshua.

Jesus (Christ) is referred to as "the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places." (Hebrews 1:3)

As to whether JWs are simply a 'marginal non-christian cult' I ask how many of the world's religions are living in harmony with John 13:35?

Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

VERY GOOD POINT.

So why did when I leave the Jehovah's Witnesses did my so called friend not give me back my possessions I left at his house.
When I asked for them this is what he said he did.
" I BURNT THEM "
I had left two pool sticks there.
A blanket with an eagle on it, which is my favorite animal.

WOW Man that was so FULL OF LOVE from him.
And that is exactly how all JW's treat everyone who turns them down.
Time after time after time I see it, every time I turn them down.
So don't even go trying to make your CULT into a religion of love, its not.
JW's religion is no better than the hate cult called Islam.

I have been in many kingdom hall's and heard this same saying over and over again.

Those who are not with us it would be better if they were just DEAD!
Love you say?
LOL
JW's have no LOVE for non JW's

Please give me a break. LOVE IN JW's ROFLMAO.

Somehow I think there may be more to this story, Scott.

Now, why would I suspect that?

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BDV wrote:

Scott777ab wrote:
neologist wrote:
The Hebrew Tetragrammaton, translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, means "He who causes to become".

The correct translation is YHWH, and that is it.

Plus it was deemed improper to say the name out loud. So with no one saying the name, and it not being correctly written, led to today's predicament where we actually don't know what it is or how to pronounce it. Yahweh is just a good guess, it could equally be YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaWaaaaaaaH

The Jews, who were given God's name, but refused to use it would substitute the word 'Lord' for the name as they read the scriptures.

God never told them it was improper to use the name, in fact, He instructed them to use it.

But the Jews had their own idea of what was proper. They were not that much different from us today.

Another good example of why the Bible presents an accurate account. The disobedience of the Jews is spelled out time and again in their own writings.

Those who claim the OT to be a 'self serving' production of the Jews to make themselves look good, have probably never read or studied it very much.

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ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI

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