What do you mean he's drinking again?

The hurt and the anger do shine through these posts. I can tell how hard it is for people to pull these memories out. I thank them for doing so and I apologize for any further pain remembering might have caused.

I know that for Mr. B this is truly painful.

The "elder drunk". Sorry, but I don't see age as being an issue here. Mr. Mr. B is not about to fall over dead. His mother just died a few years ago, for heaven's sake. Mr. Mr. B could easily bestow another 20 years of havoc on his family.

And, you know, there is this whole issue of that we love him.

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This is early, no doubt, to bring this up, but it's an occult pet subject of mine. So many of us didn't learn anything at all about, say, wine as a digestive ONLY, that some cultures view it as. Just about anyone around me, ever, took alcohol, which turns out to be good for you in small amounts, as an escape route to blotto. The weekend drinking sprees and funny stories, or not so funny, and so on. Or the opposite, my mother, who never tasted any alcohol ever, nor allowed it in the house at all, her father an abusive drunk in Watertown, near Boston, the teetotalling being in a converse relationship. Not to shift blame from anyone person, but we have a culture of excapism and obliteration, long past but still here.

So much of that wasn't necessary, however much poetry it has fueled.

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You might not see age as an issue, but he might.

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Flush'd, sweets, I knew. I think the anguish for the family (friends sometimes too) is easily tantamount to the alcoholic's, often more, but who's grading. Well, it's like yin and yang, they are bound, at least a lot of the time.

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boomerang wrote:

The hurt and the anger do shine through these posts. I can tell how hard it is for people to pull these memories out. I thank them for doing so and I apologize for any further pain remembering might have caused.

I know that for Mr. B this is truly painful.

The "elder drunk". Sorry, but I don't see age as being an issue here. Mr. Mr. B is not about to fall over dead. His mother just died a few years ago, for heaven's sake. Mr. Mr. B could easily bestow another 20 years of havoc on his family.

And, you know, there is this whole issue of that we love him.

Hmmmmm.....yes.

Couple of things his family can do to minimize harm, until he decides not to drink again.

A good Vitamin B complex.

IF anyone can get him to take the tablets!

Helps protect his liver and his brain (alcoholics, and anorexics, can get a form of dementia that one of the B group protects against.)

Some food. If he's not getting much himself.

Boomer, there's groups as part of Al Anon, for families, if Mr B should feel so inclined. Some folk I know have found them useful, though I do not know if Mr B is the sort to do so?

There has to be lots of literature for relatives.....I wonder if he might find some of it useful?

I do hope he starts to talk soon.........I think your love and understanding is the most helpful thing, of course.

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Thank you dlowan.

The love thing I can handle. I'm pretty good at loving.

The understanding thing, as to Mr. B, I'm working on. That's why I started this thread.

The understanding thing, as to Mr. Mr. B is what I'm having a lot of trouble with.

I try to live my life with the understanding that my decisions have an impact way beyond myself. Because of that I don't ever really feel like I'm sacrificing anything. By denying myself something I don't pity myself or expect anyone to pity me. By giving myself something I don't expect people to applaud or admire me for having it.

I'm a fence sitter, I wobble but I'm not Humpty Dumpty. I'm temperate weather, a light overcast with little wind. I can sit very, very still while I think things through. I'm a boring movie.

From here, Mr. Mr. B's drinking seems so incredibly selfish and self-serving that well..... try as I might.... I'm neither sympathetic or empathetic.

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I've never had any family problems similar to this.

I must be a hard bastard cause if a family members drinking, gambling or drug taking was causing problems for ma and mine I'd just cut them off. No help, no support, no nothing Just a get out of my life card.

Don't they say you have to do it (get well) yourself others cant do it for you.

All the pain and suffering they will cause just isn't worth it.

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I'll be obnoxious and repeat this -

ossobuco wrote:

You might not see age as an issue, but he might.

How many conversations have all these nearbys had with him lately? Let me guess he felt isolated, real or not, and, maybe real.

Not to cast blame, but trying not to have this guy waydisgustedat, on top of everything else.

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boomerang wrote:

Thank you dlowan.

The love thing I can handle. I'm pretty good at loving.

The understanding thing, as to Mr. B, I'm working on. That's why I started this thread.

The understanding thing, as to Mr. Mr. B is what I'm having a lot of trouble with.

I try to live my life with the understanding that my decisions have an impact way beyond myself. Because of that I don't ever really feel like I'm sacrificing anything. By denying myself something I don't pity myself or expect anyone to pity me. By giving myself something I don't expect people to applaud or admire me for having it.

I'm a fence sitter, I wobble but I'm not Humpty Dumpty. I'm temperate weather, a light overcast with little wind. I can sit very, very still while I think things through. I'm a boring movie.

From here, Mr. Mr. B's drinking seems so incredibly selfish and self-serving that well..... try as I might.... I'm neither sympathetic or empathetic.

Don't know as you HAVE to be, really......it's more, I guess, behaving kindly and reasonably despite not understanding....and making sure to look after yourself and Mr B.

Good on you for being a thinker through.

I'm the buffeted cloud, constantly changing shape!

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If he felt isolated it was only because he wanted to.

He still works. He's an attorney. A litigator. He has an active office, many clients, business partners, a full staff (one who is his grand-daughter who sees him on a daily basis), the courthouse gang, all of his children but Mr. B within shouting distance, an extensive social circle, an ex-wife who still hangs out, another ex-wife who, though happily remarried for 40 years, still carries a torch for him, and blahblahblah.

As I've said before, he is not some forgotten old man.

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I agree with osso. Age may be an issue. Thing is you (or someone) has to ask him if you want to know why.

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boomerang wrote:

From here, Mr. Mr. B's drinking seems so incredibly selfish and self-serving that well..... try as I might.... I'm neither sympathetic or empathetic.

Read my last post boom, about how Mr. Mr. B. is most likely seeing this.

You don't need to feel sympathetic or empathetic.
That would probably just piss Mr. Mr. B off anyway.

boom, a drunks way of thinking is NOT normal earth people way of thinking. You can love Mr. B, but seriously, all he can do for himself is to realize he can't fix this.

I'm sure I'm hitting you all the wrong way with this, but Mr. B will only find peace when he accepts this is not something he has any power over. If he goes to Al-anon, that's what they will tell him.

Love him in such a way that works on his accepting that his father is going to do what his father is going to due.

Perhaps Mr. B could do some reading on adult children of alcoholics.

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For Mr. B, I'm not sure it matters if Boomer has sympathy or empathy re the older B, except for your influence, Boom - I just bet Mr. B (only 1 B) probably has some, or wants some, underneath all the anguish. I don't think exploring that Mr. Mr. has a pov is dumb.

I'm out of my league, good luck.

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OK, are you kidding? "If he felt isolated it was only because he wanted to."

Isolation varies, but often rules.

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Damn, Chai. I had no idea.

And amen.

Wow.

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I did read your last post, Chai, and maybe I just don't get it.

From where I'm sitting you appear to be huge and powerful and amazing by saying "No, thanks." You were bigger and stronger and better than every other person at that table.

Saying "No thanks" is huge in so many situations.

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Thanks snood. Has any weird **** like that happened out of the blue for you?

bigger and stronger and better? why? because I had a passing fancy? no way. I wouldn't have wanted to change places with anyone else there and what's happening in their lives (and I don't even know most of what's going on in theirs. I have the easiest life I know.

I don't think it was huge, I dunno. I don't even care. By the time they put dinner in front of me, I'd forgotten all about it, until just now, point is, why'd I even consider it? Life's funny like that.

What's that expression about blue potatos? That's all it is.

But this isn't about me, just trying to show you it's not this big thing that has to happen.

Mr Mr B might well have thought to himself, "damn, I'm freaking 80, I'm gonna have a snort. or someone might have said, "hey taste this pomegranite drink" and he thought "I didn't even know they made that, let's see what it's like"

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No, I know exactly what you mean, and I think its a common way that people go back out.

It's stuff like...
One day, driving home after a particularly productive and pleasant day at my place of work - springtime - feeling good - 13 or so years sober at the time...
All of a sudden, out of the blue the thought hits me - "A cold beer would be real good about now". It would sound like a run-of-the-mill thought to someone who didn't have my past history of not being able to handle alcohol, but to me - after I realized what I was thinking - it was very scary. The way it occured to me - casually ("cunning, baffling, powerful") - is the scary thing.

But that's the way I think most people go out - for a moment or two they can't for the life of them bring to mind the absolute hell they put themselves or anyone else through with their drinking - they have a peculiar kind of selective amnesia.

And if you asked them why, you're right - chances are, if they are honest, they'll say "I don't know".

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What Chai says about your husband finding peace when he accepts this is not something he has any power over, is what I was trying to say by telling my story.
Sorry I didn't have the time to really tie my thoughts together.

The reasons why a drunk drinks are not really important or can really be understood by someone who doesn't have the same point of view as the drunk. I don't think that the drunks shouold get much sympathy or understanding either, but that's just my lifetime with an alcoholic speaking...

To me, from my prospective of a child of an alcoholic, it's more important how I feel about it, and how I am willing to accept something I have no control over, even though it's my Father and I love him and don't want to see him do things that hurt himself or his family. I know I can't understand why he does it. But, like Osso says, it is his Father's choice to drink or not to drink.

Boom, for your husband, all I think you can do is be there and love and support him as he tries to work out his frustration in a situation he has no control over. He can only control his reactions. And he will need to do whatever it takes that gets him to a place of peace. (and sometimes that place of peace isn't as shiny and happy as we would like it to be)
I know I'm not suggesting anything that you aren't already doing.

Chia, Walter, Snood, Sturgis congratulations on staying sober.
My Brother has been drug and alcohol free for 22 years and we still celebrate every year. It's an amazing accomplishment!

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What caribou, chai, snood said.

I know exactly those situations (you can't council others if you aren't honest to yourself).

I remember, about half a year or so after my therapy ended (which I left with "bad perspectives" btw), I drove up the hundred miles to that doctor, only to asked him why I didn't feel liking to have a drink like others did.

I've been through some really deep lows and only a few really huge highs.
I've never wanted a drink.

But I do "smell" sometimes wisky in my nose and get the idea, how nice it what be to sit in a comfortable chair ain front of an open fire with a nice old single malt ...

And than that period passes as it came up.

Well, lot's of memories come up now ...
It took some time until I accepted ALL these times as my past, which formed me, made me the person I'm now and today.
(And gave me my wife, whom I married 13 years after she threw [take that literally] me out of the house :wink: )

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What do you mean he's drinking again?

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