What do you mean he's drinking again?

Is it safe to assume that he was sober for a reason? A bad drunk? How old is he? What are his circumstances? Not that any of that matters much, maybe.

Was Mr. B in his teens when his dad last drank?

(seems to me that sometimes people head right back to where they were when stuff like this happens - so Mr. B's reacting as he would have at the time - may take a while for the grown-up Mr. B to catch up with him)

He was a bad drunk, it caused a LOT of problems within his family.

I'm not sure exactly how old he is -- between 75 and 80.

He and his wife recently split up -- again. They've been divorced twice before. (His third wife - not Mr. B's mom.)

If he quit drinking 30 years ago Mr. B would have been in his early teens. By that time his parents had been divorced for 10 years or so.

Is Mr. B's mom around to get some input about how Mr. B took it when his dad was drinking before?

Mr. B's mom and I have talked about it over the years. It was bad. Mr. B didn't see his dad for a long time. Mr. B blames the drinking for a LOT of things.

But the problems were all really hidden. Mr. B's dad is very successfull, still working as a matter of fact. I think it all really happened at a time when "nice people didn't talk about those things".

Mr. Mr. B is not a bad man. I've never known him as a drinker though so ....

What was Mr. B's relationship with his dad like before he (Mr. B's dad) started drinking again?

It was good -- but in a weird way. It would take 25 years to explain.

I guess what I'm wondering, as someone who doesn't understand the mechanics of alcoholism, is this the actions of a man who does not care to have a relationship with his children?

From where I sit it seems really selfish of him to drag up all this old pain again.

Mr. B's siblings have a tendency to circle the wagons in an unproductive way and I'm just trying to get a grip on this....

It just is.... well... baffling.

I'm trying not to be judgemental -- the guy has a problem but.....

..... errrrr...

..... I guess I'd just like to kick his ass.

I'll go ahead and say why I ask...

My dad and I were very close when I was a kid. Then we had Problems when I got older, starting around when he and my mom divorced (when I was 13). A lot of those Problems were related to his drinking, which got much worse yet when I went off to college.

Our relationship gets much better when he's not drinking, and I keep getting my hopes up about having a good relationship with him. And then he backslides.

The impact of the backslide is pretty directly proportional to how high my hopes were before it happened. It's happened enough that there is now a semi-permanent protective membrane -- hopes don't get as high, backslides don't have as much of an impact. If Mr. B's dad quit and stayed sober for that long, and Mr. B has crafted a functional relationship with him, I can totally see how it would be extremely freakout-inducing to see the backslide, back to how things were when things were really bad.

Perhaps things won't actually be that bad, but for someone who was hurt when it was that bad, the hurt-er knowingly going back to that state is quite a betrayal.

When I've had my freak-outs, E.G. has mostly just listened and sympathized... that's been helpful.

Oh, you responded while I was typing...

I really don't think it's not caring. It's individual I'm sure, but I think it's more about seeking oblivion. When things are hurting too much to deal with properly.

And E.G. definitely had the ass-kicking response, too. Can be helpful, in the sympathetic category. (Letting Mr. B know you think that, not actually kicking Mr. B's dad's ass...)

Thank you, soz. I appreciate your response more than you could know.

I get the feeling that you are right on target with how Mr. B is feeling.

Betrayed.

I'm digesting.....

Mr. B should be home in a few minutes so if I don't get back to this quickly don't think I'm not reading.....

From my own experiences, I'd have to say it's not that he doesn't care to have a relationship with his children, but that his relationship with alchohol is the most important relationship.

Sad, and baffling, but true.

For about twenty years, between the time I was eighteen until my late thirties, my father stopped and started drinking again several times. He would remain sober for two years, then go on a bender. Then he'd stay sober for maybe five years and then, out of the blue, he'd go on another bender that would last for a few days, a few weeks or a few months. You never knew how long it would be before he finally put the cork back in the bottle. It was devastating for me each and every time.

As far as important relationships go, I never doubted my fathers' love and never associated his drinking with me or with the family directly. That is, we weren't the cause of his drinking. It was my understanding that he'd been a drinker since he was a very young man and although he knew how much havoc his drinking brought into the house and the family, still, being a MAN, he felt that it was his right. My mother fought this mentality for years, did everything she could to make him see how much damage he was doing, but she finally had to let it, and him, go.

He took his last drink about ten years or so before he died. Simply said that he'd had enough. I've never been altogether sure whether he was a bonafide alcoholic or just a stubborn old MF who felt that it was a man's right to drink as much as he wanted, whenever he wanted.

I can only comment from my perspective, Boomer.



My dad wasn't a BAD drunk...he didn't hit anyone or anything...he was just kind of sodden, unreliable, sexually inappropriate at times (verbally...but his contempt for women and this awful kind of slavering but hateful view of female sexuality came out...still makes me sick to think about it, ewwwww...), kind of grovelling at other times, or utterly egocentric and insensitive, or depressed and spent hours ruminating, rehearsing every bad thing that ever happened to him, and glaring balefully out at the world.....making everyone feel very distressed and uncomfortable.


It was yucky when my mum was alive, partly because of the terrible tension that was there when he was drinking, and this made me feel kind of responsible for it and him when she died. Nasty brew.


So, for me, if I were suddenly put in a situation that reminded me of all of that (I have just stopped, after 15 years, having nightmares that he has come alive, and I am responsible for him again!) emotionally I would be quite overwhelmed and would struggle to be affected by all the wisdom and cognitive skills, and will to compassion and acceptance, that I have gained over the years.

The feelings of responsibility that I didn't want, but felt I had to act on, also had the effect of making me incredibly angry.



So...I suspect Mr B and the kids are operating from whatever toxic brew the whole thing was in when he stopped drinking last time.


But I don't know what theirs is like...except alternating, or coexisting feelings of responsibility and fury are reasonably standard, I think.

dlowan is so right. Everyone's experience is undoubtedly different. I never felt responsible for my father. As a matter of fact, his drinking left me feeling small and completely powerless. There was absolutely nothing I could do or say to stop it.

It's really too bad that Mr. B has to deal with this old **** again. I can't imagine having to cope with the old hurts and the helplessness now, at this point in my life. Give him an extra hug for me, girlfriend.

Some people are blessed with convenient parents.

Some people are cursed with inconvenient parents.

Your father-in-law may be inconvenient only when he's under stress, but right now he's under stress.

Does Mr. B. feel that he Must Do Something?

My father ws a hard core alcoholic... drinking literally killed him. He would have been a worthless prick even without the alcohol though so it merely amplified the useless piece of **** he was.

At the age of 75 to 80 if he's started drinking again it may be best just to write it off. I know that sounds mean spirited but I don't intend it to. I mean it's not like he's going to be around another 25 years.

It's useless - for others - to look for the reasons why someone is drinking.

That should be part of the (whatever) 'therapy' the drinking person makes.

And then she/he will learn that drinking doesn't kill those reasons, they can "swim" in alcohol.

Being sober for a long, even a very long time doesn't immunisise.

I've seen in my professional carreer (over ten years or so) in counselling alcoholics and their families personally three cases where sober people started drinking again after 30+ plus years.

(Sober now myself nearly 25 years.)