Hydrotech Water Softner with Fleck 5600 or 2510?

Gary Slusser wrote:

I'm glad to help. I see you're quick to judge but you might want to look at the Proflo, it is a better valve than the 2510.

In my professional judgment the 2510SE is a better valve, but thanks for your help anyway.

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both systems
Magic Man do you know what they are charging you for the 5600 alone?
I have a local guy here in Orange cnty NY that quoted me 1200, but that is with the sweat sleeve and stainless steel valve, 6 bags of salt and to run a new electric line for tanks!. He said he wanted to start me off with the stainless valve because the nylon ones are crap! Let me know what you were quoted!?

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Re: both systems

woodywho wrote:

He said he wanted to start me off with the stainless valve because the nylon ones are crap!

Noryl® modified PPO is a strong engineering plastic, it is the H2O industry standard material for residential control valves for a reason.

Stainless is used on some bypass valves, but I have never seen a stanless control valve.

HTH ~

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Re: both systems

H2O_MAN wrote:

woodywho wrote:
He said he wanted to start me off with the stainless valve because the nylon ones are crap!

Noryl® modified PPO is a strong engineering plastic, it is the H2O industry standard material for residential control valves for a reason.

Stainless is used on some bypass valves, but I have never seen a stanless control valve.

HTH ~

H2O_Man is right. THere's plastic and then there's high tech polymers. Noryl is an amazing product. It is totally inert and can be machined if required.

Don't confuse Noryl with ABS that's used in the Sears softeners and the like.

Probably not stainelss steel but rather brass. I'd rather have Noryl

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Re: both systems

Quote:

Don't confuse Noryl with ABS that's used in the Sears softeners and the like.

Probably not stainelss steel but rather brass. I'd rather have Noryl

I have the catalog in front of me(opt. access)....it is a "stainless" (not brass) bypass valve Very Happy

You might be right in regards to the noryl. My guy said the "stainless" is an upgrade from the standard bypass ...assuming some type of plastic
Then again the noryl & stainless are both listed in the opt accessory section Rolling Eyes

something to look into i guess....any1 else want to chime in!?

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Re: both systems

woodywho wrote:

Quote:

Don't confuse Noryl with ABS that's used in the Sears softeners and the like.

Probably not stainelss steel but rather brass. I'd rather have Noryl

I have the catalog in front of me(opt. access)....it is a "stainless" (not brass) bypass valve

You might be right in regards to the noryl. My guy said the "stainless" is an upgrade from the standard bypass ...assuming some type of plastic
Then again the noryl & stainless are both listed in the opt accessory section something to look into i guess....any1 else want to chime in!?

Yep, your guy has a Noryl control valve with a stainless bypass assembly.
I prefer the Noryl bypass assembly because of the higher flow rates, but the stainless one will work.

HTH ~

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Re: both systems

Quote:

Yep, your guy has a Noryl control valve with a stainless bypass assembly.
I prefer the Noryl bypass assembly because of the higher flow rates, but the stainless one will work.

HTH ~

thx for feedback! Very Happy

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Re: both systems

H2O_MAN wrote:

Yep, your guy has a Noryl control valve with a stainless bypass assembly. I prefer the Noryl bypass assembly because of the higher flow rates, but the stainless one will work.
HTH ~

Mt bad, I misatkenly thought you were talkin abouth the materials used in the control valve body which can be brass or Noryl.

The bypass is stainless steel or Noryl.

I alway like mating the same materials so I'd prefer the Noryl control valve and the Noryl bypass.

JMO

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Re: both systems

woodywho wrote:

Magic Man do you know what they are charging you for the 5600 alone?
I have a local guy here in Orange cnty NY that quoted me 1200, but that is with the sweat sleeve and stainless steel valve, 6 bags of salt and to run a new electric line for tanks!. He said he wanted to start me off with the stainless valve because the nylon ones are crap! Let me know what you were quoted!?

Without knowing the physical size, or at least the maximum capacity, of the softener there's no way to compare price. A 5600 is only the control valve, and this Noryl or SS by-pass valve (Fleck makes both for many of their residential controls). The SS comes in 3/4" and 1" and the Noryl in 1" only and you can use plastic connectors or a brass yoke on it. The flow through either isn't a concern depending on the size of your plumbing because the distributor tube should be 1".

Others suggest Fleck control valves. After selling and servicing FLeck valves for 20 yrs, I say the Clack valves are the latest revised and improved Fleck that Fleck still hasn't come out with. I've repaired numerous hundreds of them over 20 yrs.

The improved Clack design is due to 3 ex Fleck engineers, the senior with 28 yrs (I'm told he invented the Fleck 5600), his senior assistant 22 yrs and another with 18 yrs leaving to go to Clack in roughly 1998/99 and designing the Clack line of valves starting with the WS-1 in 2000 and currently they have the 1" 1.25" 1.5" and 2"and are all but ready to release the 3".

The Fleck 1500, 2500, 2510, 4600 is it..., 5600, 6600, 6700, 2750 (the only 1" ported valve in all of those) are very difficult for a DIYer to repair. The Fleck Proflo is a Noryl 1" valve.

Fleck's 7000, a 1.25" valve is not as good for a DIYer as the Clack 1" or 1.25". All those Fleck valves above, they require special control model specific Fleck tools to repair except for the Proflo. The 7000 requires one special tool while all the rest need three....

The Clack valves are much quicker and easier to repair with much less expensive parts. That is by design of those engineers.

Clack has been in business since 1947. Fleck since 1953. Clack Corp may be larger than Fleck, or not. Clack is a family owned private Corp as Fleck was until IIRC the early/mid '90s when Mr Fleckenstein took the company public. Shortly after that it was bought by Pentair, a large holding company, and Mr Fleckenstein was to remain with the company but died a couple yrs later; about the late '90s.

So I think anyone looking for a softener should include the Clack valves in their research.

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Re: both systems

Gary Slusser wrote:

the Clack line of valves starting with the WS-1 in 2000 and currently they have the 1" 1.25" 1.5" and 2"and are all but ready to release the 3".

What diameter riser pipe is used for each?

Never mind ~

A quick check of the Clack web site and I find the distributor tube is either 3/4" or 1".

No matter what size inlet and outlet, Clack reduces it down internally to either 3/4" or 1".

IMHO, 1.25" 1.5" 2" and 3" valves for household use is much about marketing and not much more.

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Re: both systems

H2O_MAN wrote:

What diameter riser pipe is used for each?

Never mind ~

A quick check of the Clack web site and I find the distributor tube is either 3/4" or 1".

No matter what size inlet and outlet, Clack reduces it down internally to either 3/4" or 1".

IMHO, 1.25" 1.5" 2" and 3" valves for household use is much about marketing and not much more.

I wasn't talking inlet/outlet plumbing connectors... those sizes I mentioned are of the internal porting/water flow passages.

While I'm here... The distributor tube, or riser pipe as you call it, is always defined by the OD and Clack does not offer/have any smaller than 1.05" for the WS-1, the smallest valve they make, which is full 1" ported. The other valves are larger and have correspondingly, or appropriately, larger DTs or riser pipes as you call them.

Fleck has 13/16" or 1.05" DTs for their 3/4" internal ported 1500, 2500, 2510, 4600 is it?, 5600, 6600, 6700 control valves. All you do is change the pilot and o-ring to go from 1.05" to 13/16" or back the other way.

In residential there are needs for up to and including a 1.25" control valve but it is rare since I can use the Clack WS-1 on up to and including a 7.5 cuft softener or filter.

The other valves I mentioned are commercial and industrial valves that are rare in residential applications.

Please paste a link to the page on Clack's web site to whatever makes you think 3/4" and 1". BTW, you find the size of the DT the valves use by looking up the valve's spec sheet. Or are you saying the Clack WS-1 can use two sizes of DT/riser tubes?

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Re: both systems

Gary Slusser wrote:

Please paste a link to the page on Clack's web site to whatever makes you think 3/4" and 1".

Look at page 5, table 2 in this Clack PDF

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The link doesn't work; 404 error.

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I'm not sure why the link is not working, but the information is on the company web site under Control Valve.

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Here is the URL...

http://www.clackcorp.com/valve/Manuals/WS1&1.25_V3115.pdf

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justalurker wrote:

Here is the URL...

http://www.clackcorp.com/valve/Manuals/WS1&1.25_V3115.pdf

Thank you!

Yes that's it - look at page 5, table 2.

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Yes, 1.05" or 1.32" DTs for the Clack WS-1.

The 3/4" and 1" is inaccurate due to the various types of materials used for DTs. I.E. sch 20 and sch 40 PVC, or the normal material, ABS, which has the largest ID of any of them because of it having the thinnest wall thickness.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

The 3/4" and 1" is inaccurate due to the various types of materials used for DTs.

So, the information Clack is releasing is inaccurate ~ or you have it wrong because the inside diameter is clearly stated @ 3/4" and 1".

The over sized inlets and outlets Clack markets offer no advantage to the residential buyer, but they do give the seller something different to talk about ...

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Gary Slusser wrote:
The 3/4" and 1" is inaccurate due to the various types of materials used for DTs.

So, the information Clack is releasing is inaccurate ~ or you have it wrong because the inside diameter is clearly stated @ 3/4" and 1".

Did you see or read the 1.05" before the (3/4")? Did you see the 3/4" inside the ()? The same for the 1"?

Pick up a piece of 3/4" copper, PEX, CPVC, galvanized etc. which are ALL actually 7/8" CTS tubing or pipe, and measure the ID.

It isn't 3/4" ID, you can measure any 3/4" K, L or M copper or CPVC or PEX or galvanized etc.. it is less than 3/4". The same for 1".

That's why it's inaccurate to call a 1.05" DT, 3/4". Or a 1.32" DT, 1". The 3/4 and 1" figures are nominal, not accurate, slang terms etc..

Quote:

The over sized inlets and outlets Clack markets offer no advantage to the residential buyer, but they do give the seller something different to talk about ...

Obviously you must believe there are no main water lines in houses larger than 1". You might want to get out more, expand yer horizons; things have changed.

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Residential water treatment and filtration
I read it and understand it. The listed inside diameters are 3/4" and 1".

Also, 3/4" and 1" are the standard size for main water lines - larger is the exception and they all reduce before use.

Another thing to consider when someone tries to sell you a non-standard oversize
control valve is... will you the homeowner going to realize any benefit?

Think about it, your toilet, facet and shower head are all low flow by code.

K.I.S.S.

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Hydrotech Water Softner with Fleck 5600 or 2510?

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