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Homosexuality v. Christianity -- A FEW QUESTIONS:

Forums: Spirituality And Religion, Religion, Christianity, Homosexuality, Homophobia
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:27 pm
Steissd, I think you will find that you were the one who moved the discussion over to being about Islam vs Christian countries' attitude towards homosexuality, which from there trod the usual weary path to Israel vs Palestinians.

I sought to bring the discussion back, because I do not think that moving to a discussion of how bad, or not, Islam is on the issue has anything to do with addressing the very real questions of the policies of the christian churches, just as it is not enough to say, oh, someone else is worse, when addressing poor behaviour in the person before you.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:35 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Come on Frank! I'll take a little hypocrisy over lynching gays any day.

Problem is there is no dicotomy there ... The reality is we have both; the two concepts exist damn near symbiotically.

Oh, and an aside ... Michael Savage (The Jerry Springer of Conservative Media, and an embarassment to any thinking Conservative), though still a Talk Radio Icon, has been rather quietly yanked from MSNBC's line-up. I guess one could say the Peacock Crowd Out-Foxed themselves Twisted Evil
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:44 pm
I think when Jesus told the angry mob, "OK, the first one of you without sin can stone this adulteress to death," it was a clear sign that killing folks because of percieved sins was not in line with his thinking.

So, a Christian can pretty well take from this exchange that a Christian has no business killing other people.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:49 pm
What about in wars?
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:49 pm
In a novel, the characters go through change. The main character is always different on the final page, than he/she was in the opening chapter--
The Bible is the same. Changes take place.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:50 pm
Dammit! Now I've digressed!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:50 pm
You're saying god grew up?
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:53 pm
What about in wars?
-----------
Good question. Some Christians feel they must be conscientious objectors, while others hold to the "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" and feel the whole authority thingie in the Bible, which tells people to obey their govt. (authority)

I, personally, couldn't kill someone. If I were a man, and drafted by my govt, I would be in trouble.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:54 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Christianity thinks homosexual conduct is a crime punishable by death -- and they refrain from it.

So are you saying that Christians are hypocrites -- and Islamics are more attentive to what their god decrees?
No, I say that Christians ( I mean the modern ones, please, do not remind me of Crusades and Inquisition in Spain) are more tolerant and less prone to violence toward the people they disagree with.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Ahhh...so you are saying that the Jews are also hypocrites. Their god decrees that the penalty for homosexual conduct should be death -- and yet they do not do it.

No, I want to say that Israel is a secular country.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:54 pm
That's interesting Sofia.

I had always seen you as very pro-military?
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:54 pm
You're saying god grew up?
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Nope. I'm saying He changed the rules, in the form of Christ.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:58 pm
What do you posit, then, happened to god to make it change the rules?
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steissd
 
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Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:02 pm
dlowan wrote:
which from there trod the usual weary path to Israel vs Palestinians.

On the contrary, I was surprised when some other participants responded to my invectives against Islamic violent intolerance toward the differing people by means of referring to the Middle East conflict. My idea was as follows: despite of the fact that the Bible rejects homosexuality, the countries belonging to the Judo-Christian civilization have the world's highest level of tolerance toward the sexual minorities (I think, people there share an idea that God hates sin but loves all the people, including the sinners), and if someone is really concerned in gays' rights, he/she should refer to treatment the gays receive in the world of Islam.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:05 pm
We were still baddies after the flood. Sort of a disappointing bunch. So, instead of judging us from a safe, antisceptic distance, He decided to become one of us--absolve us of our imperfections, and tell us how to live together.

The OT version of what to do with adulteresses obviously changed. I, for one, believe everything changed--though Frank is very handy with quotes from Jesus that seem to say the opposite.

I would never try to convince anyone of the 'validity' of my views, but I don't mind sharing them.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:06 pm
and if someone is really concerned in gays' rights, he/she should refer to treatment the gays receive in the world of Islam.
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I think this statement has merit. Not just Islam, but all groups, who murder other groups.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:09 pm
Steissd - I didn't say YOU trod the weary path, just that, once Islam comes up, it appears enticingly in front of many feet....
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:15 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Come on Frank! I'll take a little hypocrisy over lynching gays any day.


So will I. And that is what we are getting -- hypocrisy instead of killing.

That is all I pointed out, right?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:19 pm
Sofia wrote:
We were still baddies after the flood. Sort of a disappointing bunch. So, instead of judging us from a safe, antisceptic distance, He decided to become one of us--absolve us of our imperfections, and tell us how to live together.

The OT version of what to do with adulteresses obviously changed. I, for one, believe everything changed--though Frank is very handy with quotes from Jesus that seem to say the opposite.

I would never try to convince anyone of the 'validity' of my views, but I don't mind sharing them.


Jesus doesn't SEEM to say that he was not here to change the law -- HE DOES SAY IT. Matthew Chapter 5; Luke Chapter 16.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:22 pm
Then, Frank, how do you resolve what the OT says to do with adulteresses, and what Jesus later taught?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 03:50 pm
He said they said we all said. I don't believe any of it. All it takes is a vivid imagination and a good press agent and you can start your own religion.
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