Babel

The end of "Babel" reminded me, very strongly, of the end of Kurosawa's "Ran".
They are, IMHO, the best picture endings I've seen.

You're right -- I had let the ending of "Ran" slip into distant memory. Time to see it again -- no excuse, I have it on DVD.

fbaezer

I was thinking about what you said about the Janpanese girl and how she was confused about boys, because of her being deaf.

My impression of her behavior was not that she was acting out sexually because of her deafness, but because she didn't know how to deal appropriately with her grief over her mothers death.

People use sexuality to deal with a lot of things in life. I think if she was not deaf, she still would have been using her sexuality, but verbally as well as visually and through touch to vent what she could not deal with. Remember, she also acted out with grown men, her dentist and the policeman as well. If she could hear, and speak well, she would have been saying suggetive things to them as well.

(Just reading, haven't seen the movie yet though I've read reviews and am interested in it... but have to add that yeah, that struck me too from what fbaezer said -- of course deaf girls can relate "normally" to [hearing or deaf] boys, even if this particular one couldn't.)

Hey soz, came back to edit, but you'd just posted....I'm continuing my thoughts below.
BTW, I was thinking of you when that deaf point was made, and thinking you may not agree with that. I'd be interested on your take after seeing the movie.
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That said, reading over what you first explained to me...It's not about understanding, it's about understanding your own bunch....I don't think she, for instance was acting a particular way because she belonged to a particular "bunch" i.e. the Deaf. She was acting that way because she was a hurting human being.

The 2 boys with the rifle....when they were arguing over who was going to use the rifle and daring each other to shoot at the bus, I remember thinking they were acting like kids anywhere in the world. They could have been in Mexico, Illinois, the Netherlands, or even France. They were doing what kids the world over do. They were siblings pushing each other to the limit, when they shot had the bus they were no more thinking at that moment there were people in there than a kid who throws a rock off an overpass realizes this might permanently change any number of lives.

The old woman who was taking care of the shot woman? When she gave her some whatever that was to smoke to relieve her pain, she was doing what anyone would have done, whether it would have been give someone a pill, give them a shot of booze, or whatever.
There are places in the very country I live in were if my loved one was shot, I would have felt just as isolated and frightened as these people felt in the desert....ever seen Deliverance?

It seems when all is said and done, this movie conceivable could have been made all within a small town. Whoever wrote it just chose to use the bigger stage of the world. Or on the other hand, this movie could have been made in the context of intergalactic relationships.

shrugs.

On the deaf girl.
I've seen deaf people interact with others with no problem, but IMHO, this girl was living in her own deaf girls ghetto, and could not relate well -maybe I said it wrong the first time- due to her living in the deaf girls ghetto: they were the only ones who seemed to understand her (not only what she said, but how she felt).
I think Iñárritu is trying to tell us we all somehow speak Japanese Sign Language: i.e, that we all live in a sort of communication ghetto.


On Amelia.
Yes, I think the reasonable thing to do was not going to the wedding. The border is tough. She had a visa, but no working papers. But a Mexican mother gets unreasonably motherly. (Maybe other mothers around the world can get unreasonably motherly, but with a Mexican it's a sure bet).


On the shooting kids.
I know it can happen anywhere. But using Moroccan sheperds had a triple significance: 1) the political effects of shooting an American in a Muslim country ("it's desert, they speak some sort of Arabic and they're Muslims); 2) the seemingly illogical reaction of the father: the three men run, WITH the rifle (a coveted property, an apparent protection) and don't go to the law, and try to explain; 3) the poor always get the small straw.

I've never watched a well made film in expection that individual scenes will punch through the point. All the parts are important but when dissecting them out of the context of the film (in this cast, the context of stories taking place across the world -- it would never work in a small town), it can add more to the puzzlement. We know characters on the screen in a film like this more for their actions, or in-actions, than what they say that's in the script. I also don't listen to a symphony and pull out a few of the tunes attractive to me to illuminate its meaning. "Babel" has its detractors but it seems the criticism boils down to "too many notes."

The paradox of the member contrex, I daresay, is his lack of realization of "disagreeable" traits of modern world which he has discovered (half-heartedly and superficially) and into which he unwittingly got himself.

Anyway it's always rude and will bring nothing other than mere irk if you are always aggressive. Also, danger occurs whenever one proceeds so rashly that he forgets to get himself under his own microscope of values.

Now comes the film Babel. The film moved me. At times something surged around my eyes. It was about some very fundamental, and, very delicate problems of our lives.

From what I read from this thread, Chai, I am afraid to say it probably will never touch you as much as it did to me. All I can do is to remind you of some tiny points.

What caused the dramatic transformation of the Mexican man from a peaceful ( if not always law-abiding) citizen to an insane fugitive?

You remembered the time the Japanese girl got lost in the "cacophony" of spashlights dans le discotheque?

Do you understand the tragedy that a supposed rifle test can lead to the death of the first-born?

What did she do when the Mexican babysitter was learned of her deportatio? ( I tell you, She sobbed like a helpless animal left with nothing)

From a certain point you are lucky. You life is not so disturbed as not to be disturbed by this movie. From another point it's unlucky, though not for you. Because, there are people who ARE "disturbed". Their lives are not so tranquil that they more or less grasped the idea.

Again for contrex. I refuse it to be political. It's no good seeing this varied opinion of a film as an international phenomenon. It's no good. Take it as my warning. From your country's own history you should know better than I do what bloody beheading business that people under the banner of some lofty ideas will do. (Honestly, I like French. Je parle un peu francais and all the honestly, I don't like the French aspect I have observed in you)

For Chai again. I believe you will somehow comprehend, in due time.

It's sometimes my strategy

Thanks for your well thought out reply J-B.

I'll admit, movies seldom effect me as much as books do. But no sense going into that, just not my preferred art form. But, since we are talking about movies, I can certainly respect the feelings it brings out in some, if not most people.

Strange as it may seem to you, in a turned around sort of way (I often think backwards, but come up with the same results...just a different vantage point I suppose) I truly do understand and feel the suffering of the people in that movie, I see people in real life going through these things every day. I know that ones life can change in the blink of an eye, from an unknown source, which is what happens over and over again in Babel. No one is exempt from this.

I do didn't look at it in a political sense, more like, corny as it may sound, that this is one earth, and we are all citizens of the planet first. We all love, hate fear, grieve. Borders are real physically, but I dont' think they have to be emotionally.

The best films, for me, have been almost entirely cinematic. In others words, they wouldn't work well in words. That's why adaptations from the written word can be tricky, inarticulately scripted, not-too-clever, paraphrasing on imagery evoked in the mind by a great writer. It depends, of course, on the books you read. I've read very few books of the last twenty years that were even attempted to adapt as a film. Those seem to always be the best books.

I can't imagine this film working on the printed page.

I would like to know more about how one listens to a symphony with any strategy in mind. I had a friend in college who liked to pull apart the structure of a classical piece of music and study its parts and claimed that needed to be done to appreciate the intent of the composer. I listen to it on a visceral level and discovery different emotions each time and try not to intellectualize it. That's not to say that I don't perhaps let the big tunes from symphonies sometimes dance around in my head but that becomes a stimulus to put the disc in a player or go to a concert and listen to the entire piece.

There was a PBS program that was about the first performance, in a salon full of various characters including Haydn, that dramatically commented on each part the Eroica symphony. I did like it and should have kept it on my DVR to burn a DVD. However, I think that approach can be done once and perhaps not again. The 3rd Beethoven symphony was revolutionary which is why they selected it.

I can see pulling "Babel" apart and examining its parts but don't see how it could possibly make the film more powerful than it is. That it's in the original mold of Altman's "Short Cuts" and, along the line, "Magnolia," is not a drawback. I'd rather let the movie rest in memory and return to seeing it again in some future time.