THE BRITISH THREAD II

@izzythepush,

Voters considering fleeing to Scotland, Brighton or abroad following Tory general election victory

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There will be a referendum on Europe, if the no vote wins we will be screwed, businesses will leave Britain like the proverbial rats fleeing a sinking ship. There is some hope though, Euroscepticism is age related which is why UKIP and so a certain extent the Tories have such an aging membership. The Scottish referendum actually got the young interested in politics, the Euro referendum could do the same thing, especially when they realise their cheap package holidays to the med will shoot up in price, job opportunities in Europe will disappear and they'll have to wait in long queues at passport control, along with the Africans, Americans and Asians.

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Bump

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@izzythepush,

Bah bump...

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

if the no vote wins we will be screwed, businesses will leave Britain like the proverbial rats fleeing a sinking ship

You are delusional....this is the perfect time to schedule a vote of you are a Euro Skeptic. It is not almost certain that Greece is leaving the Euro, and nobody knows how Europe survives the loss of confidence, and very possibly others leaving too. Then we have Turkey no longer interested in joining. THen we have multiple smart people having in the last few years concluding that the EuroZone does not work as currently constructed. You have Europe being flooded by the African mostly Muslim hoards finding Europe with not even the beginnings of a solution, and massive problems integrating these same people into society.

The sinking ship might very well be Europe.

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I wonder what the Scots will think if the UK leaves Europe, and what it will mean politically if a majority of Scotland residents vote to stay in Europe, only to watch the English vote to pull them out.

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Just out of curiosity, as a non-resident UK citizen could I choose Scottish citizenship over English?

(None of my family is from Scotland. )

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@Kolyo,

I just want to mention that Europe consists of 47 states (as in the 'Council of Europe') out of which 28 are members of the EU. Wink

If the UK would leave the EU (which actually isn't so easy as many think), and if Scotland's residents would like to stay in it ... that would just be another result of how the the Union has been destroyed, I think.

The SNP got 50% of the votes in Scotland, the Conservatives just 41% in England.

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@Kolyo,

Before the referendum, it was said that anyone who had lived in Scotland for 10 years at some stage of life would be allowed to apply to become a Scottish citizen after independence.

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@hawkeye10,

You no nothing, you're speaking from a position of total ignorance. Britain is not in the Euro zone, and won't be regardless of any referendum result. There are no Moslem hordes flooding into Europe, that's just fear mongering by your right wing press. You're easier to control when you're frightened, that's why they keep you scared. You're particularly malleable. Life's so much easier when you let someone else do your thinking for you, albeit someone almost as poorly informed as yourself.

As for asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, leaving the EU wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. They're entering the country illegally as it is, they're not going to stop just because we leave the EU, no matter what your masters tell you.

Farage was railing against legal, for the most part non Moslem, Eastern European workers coming over and in some cases undercutting British workers, or doing jobs British workers won't do.

Most of our trade is with Europe, overseas firms invest in Britain because it's a gateway to Europe. HSBC is already talking of relocating its HQ. If there's a vote to get out of Europe, HSBC will get out of Britain, followed by a flood of outward investment.

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@izzythepush,

Izzy, I am frightened just like Hawk, but for a different reason. I am scared shitless that another Republican President will be elected and stack our Supreme Court with even more ultraconservative judges and making more corporations are people decisions and have the right to vote by buying politicians with loads of money, money being freedom of speech. I think that the conservatives have convinced me to buy a ak47, not to shoot mexicans or musliams, but conservatives, CEO's and politicians.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Izzy, I am frightened just like Hawk, but for a different reason. I am scared shitless that another Republican President will be elected and stack our Supreme Court with even more ultraconservative judges and making more corporations are people decisions and have the right to vote by buying politicians with loads of money, money being freedom of speech. I think that the conservatives have convinced me to buy a ak47, not to shoot mexicans or musliams, but conservatives, CEO's and politicians.

SCOTUS suffers from several major problems:

Their rulings and case choices tend to be political rather than legal.

THey seem quite not interested in freedom.

They are certainly in no mood to fight corruption

They lead a very poor justice system, which routinely abuses the American citizens, and seem to be ignorant on this fact, or at least not concerned

Their rulings now rarely are taken up by other supreme courts, this court is not any longer very well respected by international jurists.

Just to be clear, my opinion is that our supreme court is largely incompetent...they do a poor job at their day job, leads poorly, and has deep morality problems.

Caring about electing the "right" president so that the court can be stacked in the desired direction is to fail in the same way that SCOTUS has.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Before the referendum, it was said that anyone who had lived in Scotland for 10 years at some stage of life would be allowed to apply to become a Scottish citizen after independence.

Thanks for that info. I'd think it a shame if Scotland left the UK, but their rule on who could count as Scottish sounds fair.

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@Kolyo,

Left unsaid in the places I have looked is why the Left got creamed in Scotland. Does anyone know?

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@hawkeye10,

I looked up the SNP on Wikipedia, and it looks like their ideology is social democratic, centre-left. It looks to me like the Westminster parties got creamed in Scotland, not the Left.

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@Kolyo,

Quote:

The Scottish nationalist landslide gutted Labour's chances, reflecting a tectonic shift in sentiments there. Throughout the campaign, Scottish voters told pollsters and journalists they were tired of being taken for granted by Labour, and many had not been impressed when Miliband joined forces with Cameron to urge Scottish voters to reject independence in a September referendum. Scots whose families had for decades voted Labour turned away in droves.

http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2015-05-08/world-news/UK-election-analysis-Cameron-strong-as-Scotland-debacle-ruins-Labour-bid-6736135197

I have been long reading the the Scots are pissed at London.....it looks like what happened here is those who normally run left took out their anger on their alleged friends more than their enemies. It is not like we have not seen that happen in history before. I remember reading after the vote to leave failed that there is a wide perception uo North that no one in London is willing to give a damn what Scots want, even under threat of the Scots leaving, that sure seems to be true.

With anti Washington sentiment running high in America you gotta wonder if the D's are made to pay more.

And what the **** is going on with the polsters in Scotland? The is the second polling in a row where they have completely blown the call. Are the people lying to them, and if so why?

Quote:

There is irony here: Cameron and his party have long been extremely unpopular in Scotland, but he managed not only to triumph in his bid to keep the United Kingdom together with the "No" vote on independence in September, he also benefited greatly from the fallout from that vote, which proved so damaging to Labour.

That is called winning big in politics. Clearly Cameron is not an abusive rube as advertised.

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@hawkeye10,

So I was wrong, the pollsters did pick up the shift

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/scotpollgraph.gif

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

The gulf between the forecasts and the final result is partly explained by “shy Tories”—Conservative voters who either don’t reveal their true preference to pollsters or who switch their intentions at the last moment. Shy Conservative voters caused a similar upset in 1992, another election in which Labour had fielded an unpopular leader who struggled to win people’s trust on the vital question of the economy. Another factor in this year’s election has been the rise of small parties, which have made many constituencies much trickier to forecast. The UK Independence Party (UKIP), the most formidable of the new challengers, won only a single seat. Nigel Farage, UKIP's leader, failed to win a seat in Thanet South and resigned his position. But the party drew 12.6% of the vote across the country, sapping support from both Labour and the Conservatives in ways that pollsters found hard to predict.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/05/economist-explains-10

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Left unsaid in the places I have looked is why the Left got creamed in Scotland. Does anyone know?

Another example of your ignorance, the SNP are left of Labour. Before you pontificate on stuff you need to get your facts straight. And that's why you're not taken seriously, very rarely do you know what you're talking about.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

That is called winning big in politics. Clearly Cameron is not an abusive rube as advertised.

A rube? He went to Eton, one of the top, if not the top public school in the country, then he went to Oxford. Clearly you don't understand anything, you can't even get the most basic of facts right.

Scotland's antipathy with the Tories goes back to Thatcher and the poll tax. Labour lost out by seeming to side with the Tories over independence. Independence wasn't taken seriously in Westminster until the last weeks of the campaign when the polls shifted.

Devo Max was promised, but the very next day Cameron started talking about English votes for English matters. Instead of talking how to implement Devo Max he seemed to backtrack and pissed off the whole of Scotland.

During this campaign he demonised Scotland, raising the spectre of the tail wagging the dog and as a result rekindled Scottish independence. He may have won the election but he may well be the last British prime minister. All Cameron's tactics are completely short term.

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