THE BRITISH THREAD II

@farmerman,

Quote:

Id be willing to look at Hawaii as an independent nation should enough Hawaiians want inedpendence.

Some inconsistency in your argument, then?
The Falklanders want the Argies to **** off and they don't want to be anything but British.

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@izzythepush,

st you were in ARgentina? I was there in October and the discussions come up frequently about Las Malvinas as part of Arhentina.
You seem to speak from another orifice about what you think the falklanders want. Of course there are "Loyalists".
Ring a Bell?

3 Replies

@farmerman,

Well, yes, certainly people in Argentina want the malvinas to be part of Argentina.

But since ...

you wrote:

Id be willing to look at Hawaii as an independent nation should enough Hawaiians want inedpendence.

... you should respect the local vote on the Falklands, too.
(When it became the Islas Sebaldes aka Sebaldinas, they were inhabited. But fortunately, the Netherlands are out of this business by now ... [And we don't want the Marianas back from the USA, too.])

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@farmerman,

They had a vote. Something you seem to dismiss as completely unimportant.

Quote:

You seem to speak from another orifice about what you think the falklanders want. Of course there are "Loyalists".

Are you suggesting massive electoral fraud? Being in Argentina has nothing to do with it, you know what the Argentinians want, not what the islanders want. They've clearly demonstrated what they want with a vote.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

st you were in ARgentina? I was there in October

terrific.

What they say in Argentina is apparently different from what they are saying in the Falklands.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Sorry, I was a week or two behind. The vote was last week. I thought it was still a week away. So, the population has spoken and Im not gonna ask for a recount. Ill take my licken and base it upon being uninformed because Ive been either in the barn or sleeping the lastr 3 weeks. Today I caught up (actually just about 30 minutes ago as I read the papers from trhis week)

However, your phrase about 'Exterminating" the population was uncalled for and not part of anyones thoughts.
My feelings are that ultimately and eventually ARgentina will prevail because there are a vocal Brit ancestry population, another Chilean and Argentinian, and another batch who dont give a ****. (

Sea Lion Basin is made too much of, its barely worth getting at becase its mostly wet gas and unless its outted at a price >1.50 /therm. it aint even worth finding. Were capping drygas wells in PA and developing those are 10 times easier than the wells off falklands.

(My feelings are obviously Argentinian mostly because of my dealings in ARgentina and because Empires have always been untasty ways of running countries (unless everyone owes theior fortunes to the sovereigns largess)). I think that, i HAwaii, at least 1/3 of the population would want sovereignty, 1/3 is ok with statehood, and 1/3 dont Give..

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

What they say in Argentina is apparently different from what they are saying in the Falklands.

What they say in the USA is different from what they say in many places.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

My feelings are that ultimately and eventually ARgentina will prevail because there are a vocal Brit ancestry population, another Chilean and Argentinian, and another batch who dont give a ****.

the Spanish/Chilean population is less than 10% in total

92% voter turnout - not too many in that don't give a **** contingent

Quote:

Despite near zero temperatures and flurries of snow and rain, the turnout was 92% from an electorate of 1,650. All but three people voted yes to the question posed on the ballots: "Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an overseas territory of the United Kingdom?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/12/falkland-islands-referendum-votes-yes

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I think that, i HAwaii, at least 1/3 of the population would want sovereignty, 1/3 is ok with statehood, and 1/3 dont Give..

your perception of what's going on in Hawaii is quite different from the reality in the Falklands

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

fight with Set, Im sure he'll accomodate you.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

However, your phrase about 'Exterminating" the population was uncalled for and not part of anyones thoughts.

Argentina has a track record of throwing people out of aeroplanes in the middle of the Atlantic. Argentina has a very long history of dictatorship culminating with a very brief (so far at least)fling with democracy.

'Disappearances' are a very real fear amongst the islanders. It's very much part of their thoughts.

Right at the beginning you claimed not to have a dog in the fight, then you told of going to Argentina to discuss the Falklands. Sounds like you might have quite a large dollar shaped dog in this particular fight.

At the end of the day you find it hard to believe that anyone would actually want to be British. We're the ones who want to respect the islander's wishes, whatever that may be, not impose a form of government on them they don't want. This is about self-determination and freedom.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Argentina has a track record of throwing people out of aeroplanes in the middle of the Atlantic

So does the UK and USA, so thats something we are all trying to deal with and learn from the past. Argentina and Chile both have had pernicious records of violations on human rights. So does the UK and USA. OUR human rights violations are for a higher purpose??
We are still doing lotsa business with China and we see how MILLIONS of people are dsiposessed of their lands and lives and left often to starve.

Please dont lecture about human rights as a product of the "That guy behind the tree" cause we are it too.

Im not trying to outdo JTT because he is very focused and avoids ALL others except the US and UK for his chiding.
As Thomas Jefferson sorta said,
"Our government is terrible and inhumane, Except for all the others"

Quote:

Right at the beginning you claimed not to have a dog in the fight, then you told of going to Argentina to discuss the Falklands

I never implied I went to ARgentina to discuss the FAlklands. I GO TO ARGENTINA A LOT because I have projects involving Titanium and Lithium in the Several southern countries of SA. WE often meet in Buenos Aires and the topic of the FAlklands comes up a lot (By the ARgentinians and Peruvian geologists)

You imply I have interests, I have AN interest in the goings on. Depicting ARgentina as some kind of National Socialist government is IMHO, propoganda of someone who DOES have INTERESTS in maintaining that view of them.

They ousted the General not the US or the UK. We did have some involvement with Los Pepes in another country but that was involving drugs.

Quote:

culminating with a very brief (so far at least)fling with democracy.

'Disappearances' are a very real fear amongst the islanders. It's very much part of their thoughts.

Weve kissed an made up with Germany, Japan, and Italy, and were now sucking off China. Maybe Argentina shouldnt be treated with typical gringo disdain

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Maybe Argentina shouldnt be treated with typical gringo disdain

It could start by agreeing to talk to the islanders themselves.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Flip yer flapjack, its done on one side.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

So does the UK and USA, so thats something we are all trying to deal with and learn from the past.

That's a surprising thing for you to say fm. Certainly not unwelcome.

The Kelpers would listen to a bid from the Argentine government I feel sure. How much do they want the islands?

1 Reply

@spendius,

wy is it surprising?
As Hegel said,"what governments and peoiple learn from history is that governments and people never learn from history" (He said it before George Santayana copped the line.

My country has been involved in atrocities from Fort Pillow, Wounded Knee to Mi Lai and beyond.

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@farmerman,

I was thinking of the mileage you have put in on the evil doings of the Church.

1 Reply

@spendius,

The big difference between the Catholic Church and ARgentina (and the US for that fact), the CAtholic Church is still failing to address its problems from the-top-down. Argentina toppled a government,

THE BRITISH THREAD II

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