THE BRITISH THREAD II

Fishing rights. Seabed minerals. Undersea oil deposits, exploitable in quantity as recant exploration shows.

How do you thing Britain got to be Great? We rob people, that's how.

Fishing rights. Seabed minerals. Offshore oil in proven quantity.
How did Britain become Great? We robbed other people, that's how.



You got it there.

I dont think Kirchner is going to take the "vote" seriously. Shes claiming that Britain is just stuffing the ballot boxes.
Anyway, Thatchers War with the Malvinas has never really been completed. The junta was toppled before any denoument.

I think Britain should go buy some Kirov Class ships from Russia, they seem to be the state of the art warship for today.

Why are you using inverted commas around the word vote? It was a lot freer and fairer than a lot of polling that goes on in America.

"IT" wont be a real representation of anything like a plebiscite since itd be like us asking to determine the future of CUBA by holding a vote in Guantanamo .
McTAG uses the resource card. If Argentina owned and developed the (not so great) oil and gas reserves, UK would probably get it cheaper by letting the stuff flow into the worlds barrel.

ANYWAY

Theres really not tht much recoverable oil in the Falklands, (total quantitation for the new SEA_LION basin) is less than .75 B bbl (It ws listed as 1.2 but its mostly "wet gas" which is a condensate that has some good industrial potential but it needs lotsa energy pumped into it to derive products.

As far as the minerals, MANGANESE? Theres plenty of that in areas where its much easier to recover. I think youve got a thing about the Falklands that is based on English/French issues.

Ive obviously got no dog in the fight but I like to see things settle to their lowest common protectorate-hood.
Im also in favor of having a true plebiscite for Puerto Rico. If they want to be a state or whether a sovereign nation, lets only let the native islanders vote, not commercial interest employees (unless thyere native islanders (2 generations at least).

It was said at the time of the skirmish that the islanders could have all been settled in salubrious quarters in England, without any further necessity to work, for a fraction of the cost we were charged to avoid having the territory lost on Her watch. It was pride. That most terrible of vices. It was a piece of luck to do with mechanical part malfunction in French missiles which saved Her bacon. The Task Force was a high risk enterprise. The military personnel risked their lives and She risked losing the next election.

It is all very well having ladies in high office when everything is running bureaucratically smoothly but when something big hits the fan there's no telling what might happen. That's why lady passenger jet pilots never fly with a lady co-pilot.

There were about 2,000 Kelpers, I seem to recall. when the shooting started, living in conditions which would be considered inhumane by any reasonable Englishman.

I think national pride was the main cause of Shock and Awe and the subsequent debacle.

I think the negotiations route was tried but the ARgentinian rep was not going to negotiated with.
Even when the junta was deposed , the Argentinians were still talking of their great moment when they stood toe to toe with the Brits .

In fact, every April 2 is a major national holiday (Argentinians are like Irish or Hindus, they are great party animals). Theres a major monument set up like our Viet Nam memorial near the soccer stadium in Buenos Aires(as I recall, I ws only there once)

All the people who live on the islands have been entitled to vote, not just a small section. Maybe it was a foregone conclusion, but that's because a lot of them remember what happened when Argentina invaded.

Your previous post suggested that the Argentinians wouldn't accept the vote because it was rigged, but the reality is that they don't see the islanders as having lived there long enough. About as long as Americans had lived in the colonies in 1776.

Guantanamo Bay is completely indefensible, an imperialist hostile power squatting in a sovereign country in order to prevent the people of Cuba going about their business, and torturing people to boot.

If you're so keen on giving islands back to their people or the nearest landmass do you support closing down the American base in Diego Garci and giving it back to the Chagos islanders? What about closing down the American base on Ascension Island and giving it to the Liberians?

Phillipines is controversial too, if you read non-standard texts.

To say nothing about what's happening in Israel/ Palestine, supported and guaranteed by the USA.

Im not afavor of anyone sitting on protectorates (including HAwaii). Your argument, to the ARgentinians is gonna fall on deaf ears. Is there gonna be another war?
The last one was in a time of deep recession when the General decided that taking over the Malvinas (aka Falklands) would be a good distraction.
Argentina of today is a totally different animal with strong nationalistic resolves. AS I said before, get a Kirov class supership, because missile technology is a waaay lot more sophisticated than before.

Id hate to see any armed conflict but I think Britain should look at the Falklands like it did most of its past colonies. "Empire" is kinda meaningless

So what should be done with the islanders themselves? Should they be forcibly deported or exterminated?

I think most of us do fm. But the vested interests get their flags out and we have to risk being called "unpatriotic" to even ask a relevant question. Usually by people who have never been near a battle-front and are best described as "party animals".

nt be silly izzy. Why must you automatically go for some draconian end?
Your just trying to maintain a vestige of the EMPIRE an time is against you.

Id be willing to look at Hawaii as an independent nation should enough Hawaiians want inedpendence.

but...but...but then where would we get leid and not have to pay a tariff?

Don't you think it's ironic talking about the evils of empire when you've been allowed to keep yours? My concern isn't about empire, but the rights of the islanders, most of whom have been living there considerably longer than the zionists in Israel. A form of imperialism your country does support.

You've still not answered my question. What should be done with the islanders?

The discussion was started about the Falklands. Now when you are geeting a lkittle uncomfortable and cant argue the point on its own merits you want a bit of a diversion.
Ive tied myself firmly in the melon truck.

ANy discussion about US holdings or "EMPIRE" in general would be welcomed also on its own merits.

SO are you gonna join up to fight the evile Argentinians? Is your argument maintenance of the Empire or resources ?

Eitherone, it aint worth a spoonfull of spit.

Hawaii would be a better tax vacation site were it a sovereign nation IMHO.
I wonder what MA's opinion is?

Im not sure MZ could vote the plebescite. HES FROM MASSATUCKY

The merits are that the people who live on the islands should be allowed to determine who governs them. You've still not answered my question of what should be done with them. If, instead of voting to remain British they'd opted for independence would you allow that? Why aren't you prepared to give the same rights to the Falklanders that you're so willing to give to the Hawaiians?

If the Malvinas elected to go with Argentina, why must I "ANSWER A QUESTION ABOUT WHGAT SHOULD BE DONE WITH THEM"? They are adults who can

1Stay on the Malvinas and acquire citizenship (Argentina has a very welcoming system for new settlers)

2They could become expats to another country

3They could probably stay in the MAlvinas as British expats

Why do you immediately talk about EXTERMINATION?? I dont think that kind of mind really deserves a response . Im not used to you making totally off the wall proposals that arent made for humorous purposes. SO I thought you were just being a comical asshole . YOU WERE SERIOUS?

whew,

If they elected to become Argentinian fair enough, but they haven't. Your notion of empire seems to deal objectively with landmasses, and does not take into account the people already living there.


They've already experienced that, and found it far from welcoming.

As far as imperialism goes Argentina refuses to negotiate with the islanders insisting on face to face contact with Britain.

I'm sure if the islanders were waving the stars and stripes and making the pledge of allegiance left right and centre your attitude would be very different.

As far as I'm concerned this is about people not empire, the islanders do not want to be subject to a power that has little regard for their human rights, and won't even discuss matters with them.