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Atheist for an hour

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 08:41 am
tycoon wrote:
Well, that's too bad you're leaving, it seems there's a lot more fertile ground to plow.

I'm just curious as to how closely you looked in the box. I know we're skirting terribly close to the No True Scotsman Fallacy in reverse, but what was it about atheism that didn't sit with you?

Your brief mention of this aspect in addressing the OP was just that...too brief.


I don't have any problem at all with Atheism that minds its own business and doesn't try to force its ideology onto me and take away rights that the Atheist thinks I shouldn't have. I have no problem with Atheists being visible or expressing why they don't believe in God and why they think that is the best way to be. I don't object to anybody's religious beliefs so long as they don't attempt to force others to practice their religion. I am pretty darn sure that I have looked far more deeply into that box than most Atheists have looked into Christianity or any other faith system without prejudice. I can see the many many evidences of atrocities and cruelty committed by those who disallow God and/or religious expression as well as atrocities and cruelty committed in the name of religion. Everybody gets tarred by that brush, but the tar isn't applicable to all advocates of any belief system.

I also believe Atheism is a religion as much as Christianity or Buddhism or Judaism or Islam is a religion.

And I believe there are nonreligious who are not the least bit concerned about whether there is or is not a God and are not the least bit bothered by those who peacefully advocate or advertise or practice or demonstrate what they believe about that.

These are topics that interest me. And if Earl (and others) were willing to focus on that it would be an interesting discussion. I am not interested in another Christian-bashing thread however and I would rather focus my attention elsewhere.
0 Replies
 
tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 09:38 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I am pretty darn sure that I have looked far more deeply into that box than most Atheists have looked into Christianity or any other faith system without prejudice.


Here is where the rubber meets the road. Sorry to have snipped the rest of your response but you have explained all that well enough earlier to my satisfaction.

However, looking "far more deeply into atheism than most atheists have looked" into other faiths strikes me as presumptuous. It bothers me that those on the other side of the table often so cavelierly dismiss atheism, as if it were the default position which required little or no thought.

What was in the box you dismissed or didn't find to your liking? Was their a unsettling fear when you moved back the paper wrappings? Did you not like the impersonal nature of nature, or perhaps the concern of losing a moral anchor?

For my part as a former Christian, I was scared. Scared I might be wrong in questioning fundamental beliefs. But in the end I simply had to get to the bottom of the box, the consequences be damned.

This is what I want to explore with you...your experience into the realm of atheism. I have a hunch you instead had an experience familiarly called "backsliding" in Christian lingo. Not really atheism, just having life and all its distractions get in the way of your faith. Am I right?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 12:36 pm
tycoon wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
I am pretty darn sure that I have looked far more deeply into that box than most Atheists have looked into Christianity or any other faith system without prejudice.


Here is where the rubber meets the road. Sorry to have snipped the rest of your response but you have explained all that well enough earlier to my satisfaction.

However, looking "far more deeply into atheism than most atheists have looked" into other faiths strikes me as presumptuous. It bothers me that those on the other side of the table often so cavelierly dismiss atheism, as if it were the default position which required little or no thought.

What was in the box you dismissed or didn't find to your liking? Was their a unsettling fear when you moved back the paper wrappings? Did you not like the impersonal nature of nature, or perhaps the concern of losing a moral anchor?

For my part as a former Christian, I was scared. Scared I might be wrong in questioning fundamental beliefs. But in the end I simply had to get to the bottom of the box, the consequences be damned.

This is what I want to explore with you...your experience into the realm of atheism. I have a hunch you instead had an experience familiarly called "backsliding" in Christian lingo. Not really atheism, just having life and all its distractions get in the way of your faith. Am I right?


No, you would be wrong as I have expressed earlier in the thread and also on on other threads. But again, I prefer not to get into the business of judging what others have or have not experienced or think or do not think. When you--not others, but YOU--put the focus on YOU to explain who you are, why you think what you think, believe what you believe, etc. etc. etc., the discussion can be productive. The minute I presume to claim that I know who you are, why you think what you think, etc., I've lost all credibility as nobody knows that but you. When the focus is turned onto who others are, what they think, what they are about, it all invariably dissolves into another pissing contest. And that gets really really boring.
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tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:22 pm
I don't follow what you mean.

Discussions are productive when the focus is on yourself?

This discussion is on yourself. What did you find with atheism that you didn't like?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:29 pm
tycoon wrote:
I don't follow what you mean.

Discussions are productive when the focus is on yourself?

This discussion is on yourself. What did you find with atheism that you didn't like?


I was never an Atheist. But I tried very hard to be a nonbeliever--non religious if you will--for awhile. I like the place where I am much better.

Again I have no problem with Atheism or Atheists per se. I have a huge problem with those who attempt to require others to conform to that doctrine. That is a behavior issue rather than a theology issue, however.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:35 pm
Fox wrote: Again I have no problem with Atheism or Atheists per se. I have a huge problem with those who attempt to require others to conform to that doctrine.

This is too ironic; I'm not aware of an atheist pushing for government legislation that requires all non-atheists to follow. Do you?
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tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:35 pm
Okay, thanks for clarifying.

I don't know of any people who have deconverted then reconverted. I'm sure there are some, and I would be interested in hearing their story.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 01:57 pm
tycoon wrote:
Okay, thanks for clarifying.

I don't know of any people who have deconverted then reconverted. I'm sure there are some, and I would be interested in hearing their story.


Working for the Church (various denominations) and in my current course of formal study, I have met quite a few. A couple were people raised in the Church, rejected it, became militant Atheists of the more ugly variety, and then reconverted. I will admit these are relatively rare, but then I don't think many people reject authentic beliefs from either camp. I do think people for whom Christianity, etc. never quite "took", can reject it fairly easily as can Atheists who adopt Atheism more because of political correctness than out of any heartfelt conviction.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 04:49 pm
Why would atheism in and of itself be a harbinger of political correctness?
Are you saying a Jew or a Wiccan or a Christian cannot be politically correct?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 05:00 pm
That's a good question. But i never expect much in the way of logic, or even of common sense from Fox. Her latest idiotic remark seems to suggest that political rectitude engenders atheism, if not actually requiring it. I'd be interested to see how she explains that precious little bit of lunacy.
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anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 09:09 pm
Foxfyre.
Seems to me, organized religion's have been trying to "prove" their "beliefs" of God's for thousands of years.
Atheist "don't", (as far as I'm concerned)... try to "prove" there is no God, because they haven't a "belief" to start with... it's only those with a "belief" that get their knickers in a knot about it...
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robertwalnuts
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 10:24 pm
anton bonnier wrote:
Foxfyre.
Seems to me, organized religion's have been trying to "prove" their "beliefs" of God's for thousands of years.
Atheist "don't", (as far as I'm concerned)... try to "prove" there is no God, because they haven't a "belief" to start with... it's only those with a "belief" that get their knickers in a knot about it...


I think you're taking this whole belief thing a little seirously...
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 10:43 pm
I agree with Anton that it IS a serious matter. Religion--fundamentalist religion--is a major danger in the world today.
The existence or non-existence of "God" is no issue for me, since either way, my life is the same. But the actions of fundamentalists can have great consequences for our lives.
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robertwalnuts
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 11:11 pm
I think you are trying to use religion as a scapegoat for many of the world's problems. True, a lot of "bad" organizations are religious, but that is usually by coincidence. Fundamentalists are simply using religion as an excuse for being fascists, but they would be even if they were not religious.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 11:15 pm
True, the faults of the fundamentalist personality and ideology have a larger spread than that of religion.
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