Eorl wrote:Foxfyre wrote:Eorl wrote:Meanwhile, it seems as though fresco was right. Nobody is actually prepared to try this?
I'm not prepared to try it again Earl. Like RealLife I know what it is like to not believe for awhile and found that I didn't like it. And like George, I spent a time trying to deny my religious faith; either shuck it or adopt something "better". And I finally wound up back at a point of truth that I could not deny.
But having been in both places, I like the place I am in much MUCH better than not being a believer.
Is "liking" it a good enough reason? (You think atheists "want" there to be no heaven?)
A similar question, but not the same; Does this mean you admit that your belief is based on your need to do so, rather than any objective reality?
Liking something I think is not a choice. It is a result of a choice. And no, it is not sufficient reason to not change. I may like chocolate very much, but that is not a sufficient reason to not stop eating chocolate if I'm allergic to it. But liking being where you are is a pleasant experience when one finds himself/herself in a good place or enjoying a good thing.
Yes, I think Atheists want there to be no heaven, no hell, no God, no benefit from religion. That is the only way they can justify the doctrine they support and that's why they so vigorously attempt to discredit religion sometimes to the point of trying to eliminate all evidence of it from public society. It is the religion they have chosen. (I also think they are sufficiently uncertain about all that so that they are drawn to threads about religion.
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I think the truly nonreligious are indifferent to religion and feel no need to discredit it or avoid it or even deal with it. They might explore it or enjoy participating in it or give it no attention at all in the same way that we might or might not find science fiction or other escapist pursuits to be aesthetically pleasing or have an entertainment or social value. A generic public prayer bothers them no more than somebody reciting the company slogan. That is different from Atheism which I define as being its own religion albeit one that attempts to deny a deity rather than worship one. Some Atheists are as zealous and aggressive in their advocacy for their beliefs as is any fundamentalist "are you saved, Brother?" Christian.
And yes, like our body having a need for certain vitamins etc. that we may not fully understand or may not even be aware of, I have come to believe that everybody has a need for God. I think it is what drives us on our spiritual journeys and keeps us wondering and thinking about it and asking questions even for those who are angry or offended by religious things or concepts. For me that is an objective reality.
But that is purely my opinion/conviction/belief/whatever and I do not require that anybody else share it.