Transition from TEFL principles to reality of high school

I am going to continue, BTW hi to Aidan. It is a long story but I am not asking about one problem but the whole situation which is pretty complex. So anyway, when I started to teach at this high school, where I am now, I was excited. At last I could teach energetic, young, beautiful, fun, talented high school students. I knew it would be a challenge, but hey, I had been so bored and depressed teaching managers in the evenings at their workplaces, that I just came to work with these teenagers with a lot of great ideas, ideals and dreams. The first thing I did, which was naive, was I told them that I am not going to be rude to them or force them to do anything. Only I gave them some points to show who would get which grade. For example, if you want an A, you have to do this, this, this, etc. But I said, it is up to you, if a B is okay, then you don't have to do this and that. And if a C is still okay, just do this and that. All smiling at them and telling them that I am not to judge a student according to their grades, I mean good people and bad people don't fit school grades so often. What was naive was that I thought that they would just grab the category or grade they want and do things willingly. But they are not so simple. Most of them wanted to get best grades without doing much. ONce they saw the grades on their report cards that were worse than they expected, the friendliness of those disappointed or passive sstudents were gone. They quickly turned aggressive or rude to me. Some of them started to pretend they are stupid. They often yell things like "I don't understand." "I am stupid. " ANd they do so in their native language. I asked them to speak English to me but they won't. They do their best to show me that they don't like me. WHile the positive part of the class that is fair and accepts my grading with humbleness, roll their eyes. THey consider these girls silly and stupid. But I still try to show my love to them and caring and to no avail. I just tell them, listen, if you keep responding to me in your native language, you don't pass the B category and you will end in the C category again. ANd they are furious inside. But at TEFL they don't teach you how to deal with this grading/belittling problem.

You could tell me, so what, it is not your problem, it is their problem. But what happened is that when these girls (about 4 of them out of 15 students ) turned negative, they added some rudeness too. They don't yell at me or don't call me names, but they treat me like a student rather than a teacher. So of course, I decided to stop this. I should add, that I hear from different people, that most students consider me an awesome teacher, love me, love my lessons and when some colleagues came to observe, they told me what I teach is like an role model lesson. So I get huge doses of respect all around the school both from teachers and students. Just to explain that the situation is not black and white at all, it is very complex. So when these 4 naugthy girls started to misbehave, I consulted the situation with their main teacher and some other teachers and we decided the best thing is to write a note in the class register . That 's what teachers do in our contry when a student does something really bad, that cant' be accepted, for example say something rude to a teacher or hurt another student, etc. When a student gets about 5 such notes, they are about to be expelled from the school. Most teachers use their natural talent to lead students and don't have to use that method. I am not a natural leader to students who are unfair, lazy and aggressive. I can lead comfortably and get respect from intelligent, talented and socially intelligent students. SO I decided to write a note once a student is rude or
won't let me manage the class, or refuses to change her seat etc. Very quickly all these girls started to get those notes from me. As they didn't respect me, they refused to accept that and complained to their main teacher. To be continued.

Hi stach,

Just wanted to know that I'm reading with interest. My initial thought is that you're uncomfortable with authority, but being a teacher (especially to high-school-aged students) IS a position of authority, and you need to own that. Teenagers don't react well when someone tries to be their friend and then brandishes the power card.

I'll wait and see the rest of what you have to say before commenting further though.

We had a short meeting - me, the teacher and these four 17 year old girls.
So the teacher asked: Do you think it was unfair to get those notes from Mr. X? They sais something like: No. That is not the point. We don't want to get such notes from a teacher who was once friendly to us, who would let us do whatever, who would invite us to a birthday party etc. He cannot expect us to respect him when he was once our friend.

I said: Yes, it is true that I went out with you students twice or so, but spefically, those of you who are here now, were never friendly to me. You never treated me like a friend. Those students who were really nice to me and friendly, they still respect me and were never rude to me. You never really talked to me.

And the teacher said: It is none of your business to decide if a teacher will or will not be more or less strict. If Mr X decided to stop tolerating your rude behavior, it is only up to him and you have to respect it. I thought you would complain about him not being fair, but your arguments are unacceptable.

Then somethning really nasty happened. had it happened 10 years ago, I guess I would go mad or something. I remained calm because I know myself and value of my work better than 10 years ago. One of the students said that she had never learned anything in my lessons. My lessons are totally useless to her.
Anyway. SHe is the kind of student who totally relies on the teacher not willing to learn anything on her own. For example when we come across a really difficult piece of grammar, say Past Perfect Continuous, they expect me to teach it in 10 minutes and make it clear for them for ever on. No matter how clever they are and no matter that it took ME a couple of years and a couple of excellent teachers and textbooks to figure out how to use a particular tense.

Then another attack, this time even nastier. One of the girls said that she cant' respect me because I write love notes to some students. I draw hearts and write things like You are so sexy etc.

I said "I don' t remember doing that" . I really did remember something similar but I definitely didn't write the things she quoted. It took me two days to recall where that gossip probably came from.

THe teacher reacted really professionally, saying that it is my personal bussiness and she should leave such things to the people involved.

So clearly, it looks like these girls decided to negate me role as a leader, a n authority and someone who might influence whether they will be expelled from the school. They would love to see me being fired, that is clear. Just because I gave them bad grades?

I suppose there is some jealousy involved turning into the nastiest scenarios happening. I can imagine them collecting stories how I invited a student to sleep with me and other nonsense.

OK, the truth is that there were a couple of critical moments, where I said something critical about a student - because TEFL principles just dont' work here and I do have to ask them to perform from time to time, while in TEFL style, you never ever force a student to do anything unless they really want do to it. So there were times when a girl started to cry , because I was critical of her. THen she would ask me to let her go to the rest room, for example, there were a couple of similar situations. tears, anger, restroom... So I would leave the classroom, find her in the hallway, without touching her, I never touch them, I swear except when I dance with them at the school dance ball, I tell her that she is really great and I didn't mean to make her cry. Then once I wrote a note on a piec e of a paper something like: Don't worry, I like you, you are great, talented, beautiful, sexy... just do your best.

I guess one of these girls must have boasted in front of others that I wrote some love notes to them. What I never realized when I did these compansation things, like writing a nice note or giving them a lollipop, was that some girls may interpret like this or that particular girl gets too much attention from me. ANd they are jealous. ANd people love ideas, cheap stories and gossip. It is like the song by the Police, Dont' Stand So Close to Me.

I should end now. Hate me, kill me, but please, try to make sense. ANd I do declare I do love all my students. Some of them just don't cry and work and some of them keep whining and some of them start to cry and some of them lose their temper easily. I sometimes feel like I am not a n English teacher, but a psychiatrist.

Thank you, I really don't mind being a leader and manager of a group of intelligent, especially socially intelligent and kind people. In fact I love it. It is great feeling to see you are handling a group of people with energy, decisiveness and professionalism and see they accept that. I had no problem with discipline when I taught a group of office workers, or on the other hand, when a taught a group of teenage girls who admired me and made the rest of them who didn't care about me, shut up. I just can't seem to be able to deal with people who have very different attitude (very passive) toward learning a language and treating others (very aggressive).

OK, I was already lifting an eyebrow at the fact that you described them as "beautiful" in your first post. Decided it didn't necessarily mean anything. But coupled with this:



I start to get concerned. (Emphasis mine.) You really need to protect yourself and not do anything even vaguely similar to that. You say "similar" but not how similar, if you really write any sort of love note you are at least making it difficult to maintain any kind of credibility in the classroom and at worst setting yourself up to ruin your career.

OK wait, now I just saw this:



DO NOT TELL YOUR FEMALE TEENAGED STUDENTS THAT THEY ARE SEXY. Geez.

Meanwhile,



They're right. You need to be consistent. You can be a peer and take that to a logical conclusion -- have no grades, or appoint a student committee to decide on grades, or something -- or you can be an authority figure and act like one.

Consistency extends to not giving lollipops (!?) unless it's a standard reward. As in, if they score 100% on a test, they get a lollipop (no matter who it is). The occasional rewards without rhyme or reason will just create bad feeling amongst your students.

In either scenario, though, you should be maintaining very strict professional boundaries. Don't call them beautiful. Don't dance with them. And really, really don't call them sexy.

Your position of authority is very different when you are teaching office workers (probably approximately the same age, being paid or otherwise getting some sort of compensation -- if only job security -- for attending your classes) and when you are teaching teenaged girls. You seem to want teaching to be a lot easier than it actually is. It would be great if all students were there to learn and were constantly attentive, diligent, etc. That almost never happens, though. Part of being an effective teacher is knowing how to manage the more difficult ones without shortchanging the easier ones.

Im having a difficult time following you . Do you communicate in such personal terms with your kids? I see danger in all that and I have no training in the "methods of teaching" I only have my subject that I teach to undergrads and grads. Coomon sense tells me that
personal attachments other than those built out of professional respect, are impossible, especially for high school kids. You are, in all respects , the Pied Piper and you can manipulate kids like nobodys business, if you were so inclined. So you should establish the metes and bounds of your relationships bothe early and often.

Kids can lie and have no sense of consequences of their lies. Giving some room to enable them is also dangerous to you personally and professionally.
I teach college and , Ill bet that every other guy on here who teaches college has been approached in a sexual manner by little hottie students who want better grades. Nothings new under the sun.

Youve gotta be cagier than your students until they surpass your expertise, not your ethics.

By the way, "to be a friend" to someone lower in the hierarchy. It is a well known wisdom that teachers who are friends to students easily lose power.
But I don't think "friendliness" is the problem. Take parents for example.
They will play all kinds of board games with the kids, play sports, talk about all kinds of things and act friendly all the time. Only when the kid breaks a given rule, someone who normally acts like an equal, will punish the other. ANd most kids, when the relationship is healthy, accept that.
I remember I loved my Dad, I respected him and we were best friends. but it was up to him to decide when equality is over and it is time to punish me or be rude to me. IT was hard, but I had to accept. The problem occurs when a child doesn't accept, which is usally when they are somehow mistreated or abused. I remember my own grandma was a wonderful "mother" to me. SHe was always fair, always strict enough, kind enough, very balanced, never going really mad. But once I thought she'd gone nuts. I remember I felt inside there was something wrong with her. I came very late from somewhere, I was like 20 min late and I was not allowed to do that, no cell phones, mind you. She beat my ass with a thick leather belt with so much vigor that it was really painful and it seemed really crazy, even from my 10 year old perpective. Anyway, she never lost my respect, as I thought that what she did was just something extreme and exceptional. And I never ever came late again.

So I believe students can be friends with teachers, even go to pubs with them, dance with them, but when in class, it is about work and discipline and there are rules. What if I come to my friend's house and start smashing his things? I think a socially mature person knows where the limit is. I think I made one clear mistake - I thought all students would feel where the limits are. They don't . Some of them want to play the game Who will take over? So I don't think me being a friend with them is a problem. The problem is that I didn't define the character of the friendship and didn't draw the limits for those who like to break the rules.

I dont buy it in the least. If you dont keep your areas separate, you dont have any credibility in either.

Being a "friend," as you define it, is a problem. The parent analogy doesn't work for a number of reasons.

Why are you so intent on being friends with them, anyway?

Do you have your own life, your own friends, away from school?

You really seem to be creating this situation, and from what you say I would bet that you will get yourself in really big trouble sooner or later unless you change how you operate.

You are their teacher. You are fair, compassionate, CONSISTENT. You are in a position of authority and not a friend.

One more thing -- in terms of behavior modification, you're creating these drama queens. The ones who cry and go running off to the bathroom are the ones who get extra attention and even outright rewards from you. They should not be rewarded for drama. They should be rewarded for their academic performance (and the rewards, if there are any, should be consistent and clearly spelled out).

Farmerman, Sozobe, I agree with you. I am writing these posts because I got into strange situations based on some psychological mistakes and seek help.

But some objections.

Consistency. Well, of course, consistency in behavior and attitude is wonderful and students like it. But then one doesn§t become consistent immediatelz, I guess. I onlz started to teach at this school two years ago and I collect experience. As I said several times, I know TEFL principles, but thez dont work here. So all I know is that students love to be praised and hate to be criticize. THe first impression when I came to this school watching how my colleagues treat students was: Constant humiliation of students. Belittling them, yelling at them, threatening. I thought Gees. You wonder why I say to a student that she is sexy? Because I reckon it is nice to praise someone. Is it illegal to be sexy? And is it harming a student's mental health when a teacher says she is sexy? Did I say I want to sleep with her? But you are right, she can play with ideas and tell others. I just didn't know that there must be so much control of my natural spontaneous
communication with students. I naively thought, as long as I don't touch them, as long as I don't call them naimes, then everything is OK. I was naive.

Beautiful, I guess that word really has two meanings. Physically beautiful and mentally beautiful. I meant my students are mentally beatiful, so no raising brows necessary. But I do declare some of my students really are physically beautiful and I think it is natural to notice that. AGain, I just didn't know it was wrong to tell them.

Lollipop. That was when one student started to cry because I made a joke about her, it was not necessary, as I say, I don't agree with humiliating comments about students, although some colleagues do it all the time, so as I was really sorry, I went to the canteen and got her a lolipop. She was so happy, you should see her. It was like fixing a mistake. I thought I fixed it.
I didn't know there is much difference between giving students good grades, telling them something positive or giving them lollipops. I thought whatever positive to boost a student's lack of confidence. I think these teenage girls need so much that someone says they are beatiful or sexy, because they doubt it all the time, commit sucide and refuse to eat. I don't think it is immoral for a teacher to boost a student's confidence. But this intetnion of mine can be very easily interpreted as trying to turn something professional into something sexual. I agree absolutely. THe girls will enjoy playing with that idea and when in the mood, they will share or even twist what I told them.

I started to teach at a different school in September. Very similar students, and I love them too and we haven't had any major problems so far. I have learned from the mistakes and when I talk to a girl there individually I make sure it is neutral. So I am not that stupid. But what I am talking here is something that started before I learned what mistakes I made. We say in our language: It is easy to be the general after the battle. So two schools, two situations. I messed something in the past and don't know where it will go now. At the other school, I haven't messed up anything yet. There are some problems, but very subtle. SO That's why I say that I belive a teacher has a right to change and learn and improve his or her style and attitude and students don't have a right to prevent that process. ANd I belive intelligent students will appreciate that a teacher wants to be a better teacher.

Fantastic observation. This is the kind of psychology wizz tips I need. Thank you very much. Really. I have all my life struggled to see these things naturally so unless someone explains to me, I am blind. You should see how awkward I have been with women all my life. Because women are sensitive to such awkward, blind behavior.

can you explain further? how do you keep the areas separate? what parents do is that they all of a sudden turn rude when the kid makes a mistake, only to hug them later and say I love you. the same thing seems to be a school - you can play scrabble with students, cards, talk about life, treating them and their opinions as important as yours, only when they do something they are not allowed to do, you punish them

i am trying to keep my lessons interesting, fun, and never act like I am the one who is right when we discuss something like global warming or racism.
So there is equality but I am the one who manages them, they don't manage me, I am the one who who says Please, stop. They can only ask politely: could we stop now doing this? But they hardly ever do. They just let me manage the lesson from the beginning to the end. The whiners just disturb from time to time. I don't know what friendliness has got do towith it. I dont' see where the problem of keeping two areas separate is.

Who is saying that you can't change or improve your style? That's exactly what we ARE saying, in fact. Change!

Looks like you are, that's great.

The consistency needs to come from you. The students won't be consistent. If you start off inconsistent, that's a strike against you -- it's much easier if you're consistent right off the bat. (Obviously.) You will have a new term in the fall, presumably (not sure of the schedule where you are), you can prepare for that and start implementing this stuff with the new group.

And you're to be commended for not wanting to be the same kind of belittling, bullying type as other teachers at your school.

In terms of "sexy," it's just too fraught to use with a teenaged girl. It is saying that you see her as a sexual being. Even if that's true, it can be very uncomfortable for her, and contains the implication that you would like to have sex with her, which is even worse.

"Beautiful" is not quite as bad as "sexy," but still is something you should stay away from IMO. It's not your job to boost her self-image, and it again takes things into a dangerous realm. It just shouldn't be a reason to earn praise. A student's beauty or lack thereof should be immaterial in the classroom.

I'd like to emphasize that my objections are not just about opening yourself up to the students using that against you. As a former teenaged girl, I wouldn't WANT to hear such things from a male teacher. It wouldn't make me feel better, it would make me feel awful. (Not just theoretical, it happened and I hated it.)

I emphasize that because you seem to be assuming that the girls like it. That is not necessarily true, at all, and may well be the opposite.

The thing is we havent' defined the word "friend". THey started with it, these girls whiners used the term to describe the situation when I went to a party with them or chatted on the friendly basis. I don't insist on being a friend. I just notice students see some teachers as remote and cold and some as friendly and close. I cannot be the remote, cold type. I would quit my job immediately. It is not me. THe fact is neigher group of teachers fails professionally. the failure comes with a detail. And that is what I am discussing here. THe fact is that I have no social life with my students, while I have plenty of social life myself. I repeat I have gone out with them twice or thrice. As often as some other teachers or even much less. I see P.E. teachers as a typical example of "friend" teacher. THey ski, canoe, play basketball, and consider their teachers friends. But at the same time they respect them as leaders. Plus it is okay with the philosophy of this school to dance with students at school dance balls. Most teachers do it.

You are NOT a parent. You're doing yourself a disservice by making that comparison. Mostly, there is a level of intimacy that is normal and beneficial among parents and children that is not and should not be present between teachers and children. Parents have raised their children since infancy, have sacrificed and have earned an intimacy that an adult waltzing into a teenager's life for the first time hasn't earned.

For another, your description of the parent-child dynamic is a little, well, weird. I realize that it goes back to your own upbringing and so am hesitant to comment too deeply as it's personal. But parents also should be consistent, and not try to be equals/ pals and then turn around and wield their power.

Note, you can be friendLY. That means smile, be kind, praise a good answer, etc. You don't have to sit there stone-faced and frowning. That's very different from trying to be their FRIEND, though.

I absolutely agree with you that it may be very annoying for a teenage girl to hear comments about her attractiveness from a male teacher. I am fortish and guess I can sense when a woman is pleased when I say something positive about her physical presence. When they hate it, they give you (us men, you women give us men) an awful, horrible look, like go to hell, you idiot. When, on the opposite, love it, they give you a look like they have been rocketed into paradise. I can see the difference. I have done something like that only with students who were angry that I said something critical. The teenage students who really don't care about me at all and are only insterested in academic issues, just don't give me any kind of reactions, never. They are neutral like a blank sheet of paper. The drama queens, as you revealed them, are those who are trying to get some special attention so I am sure they are not bothered by getting lolipops or remarks of their looks. They love it. But I agree, they don't deserve it from me, it is a game that doesn't belong to a school and they somehow made me play it.

I also agree that students should not be graded or praised according to their looks. IT is my principle, absolutely. Only when a girl - because my boys don't play these games or almost never - starts to cry feeling down / I wanted to say whatever positive - but now I understand it may be a parent's job to say to a girl You re beautiful, but not a teacher's job. I missed this point totally. I dare to say there might be an exception to this rule. THere is a student, who tried to commit suicide, I haven't taught her, only saw her in the school a few times, I think even a teacher may break a rule, when someone's life is in danger. Just a thought.

I feel that the very word "sexy" to describe someone much younger and inexperienced than you, is a manipulative term and (excuse me for being cynical) not done with the best intentions.

I think you need to review your entire vocabulary you consider some of your words merely complementary( I, on the other hand , consider them semi-predatory). As a teacher of English, Im giving you all due reverence that you know exactly the definitions of the words that you use.