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Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 04:11 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
It is official -- a woman suffered a fatal heart attack during the climactic scenes of the movie. Gives new meaning to the word overkill.

That is untrue. She died several hours AFTER seeing the movie. I leave it to the psychics out there to divine whether the two events were causally related.

Further, I suspect that if anyone bothered to track it, you would find that for every major theatrical release, someone, somewhere dies within a few hours of watching the film. I bet a lot of people farted during the film too, but I wouldn't call it "news".
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 04:27 pm
His blood is on their hands? Some seem to thnk so!
Quote:
Rebirth of hate feared after 'Passion' film

Jews brace for new wave of anti-Semitic sentiment

By Gwen Florio
Denver Post Staff Writer

Post / Kathryn Scott Osler
An anti-Semitic billboard along Colorado Bouldevard concerns two men who gathered for an evening prayer at a Denver synagogue.

It's been two decades since white supremacists murdered a Jewish talk-show host in his Denver driveway; a quarter-century since the Klan marched on an Orthodox synagogue here.

Nonetheless, the Ash Wednesday release of Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" makes some in the area's Jewish community wary.

Those fears were heightened Wednesday when the Lovingway United Pentacostal Church posted a billboard along South Colorado Boulevard proclaiming, "Jews killed the Lord Jesus ... Settled."

Denver normally is a remarkably tolerant city, says Evan Zuckerman, associate director for the regional Anti-Defamation League. "We've been fortunate in Colorado that we haven't seen anything horrific" in the years since Alan Berg's murder.

But that doesn't erase history.


"What's been hurtful for centuries is the use of this (Passion) story, this powerful and important story, in a way that causes people not only to dislike but to do violence against the Jews," says Denver ADL executive director Bruce DeBoskey.

The movie's release at the beginning of the Lenten season leading to Easter is a flashpoint.

Europe and Russia were infamous for their Easter Sunday pogroms, when Christian mobs rampaged through Jewish communities.

Rabbi Israel Rosenfeld, who survived Hitler's Auschwitz death camp, said during his childhood in Czechoslovakia's Carpathian region, "when Easter came around, everyone went around beating up Jewish kids. We were all hiding."

And retired Denver attorney Jack Greenwald told of a vacation to England where he visited the town of York, whose Jewish inhabitants were massacred in 1190 after being given the choice of being baptized or killed.

Ancient history? No more so than the events portrayed in Gibson's movie.

"For 2,000 years, four words have fueled Western attitudes: 'The Jews killed Christ,"' DeBoskey says.

Colorado has an uneasy past with racism and anti-Semitism, beginning with the Ku Klux Klan's dominance of state politics in the 1920s, and punctuated by the KKK march in the late 1970s and Berg's 1984 assassination.

To this day, Diane Summers can't shake the childhood memory of white-robed Klansmen marching past her family's house on their way to her Orthodox synagogue in Denver's Hilltop neighborhood.

"It was absolutely frightening," she says. "My mother was freaking out."

"That's not so far in the past. It's not like it was in the 1950s in Alabama," she says.


Summers' synagogue and others around Denver routinely receive police protection during the High Holy Days, she says.

Most anti-Semitism around Denver takes the form of vandalism and harassment, according to the ADL, which tracks such incidents.

In 2002, the last year for which statistics were available, anti-Semitic incidents rose 8 percent nationwide over the previous year, according to the ADL. Colorado, with 35 anti-Semitic incidents, ranked 11th among the 41 states reporting them.

The National Alliance, the country's largest white-supremacist group, has been distributing fliers in Colorado communities, most recently in Boulder.

Although the fliers target black people, the National Alliance "is anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti- black. They're equal-opportunity haters," Zuckerman says.

On its website, the National Alliance offers the furor over the "The Passion of the Christ" as "proof" of Jewish control of the media.

After complaints of anti-Semitism, Gibson reportedly removed the English subtitles from the scene in his movie where, as recounted in Matthew 27:25, the high priest Caiaphas makes his much-debated pronouncement: "His blood be upon us and our children."

DeBoskey fears subtle distinctions, such as removing the phrase, will be lost upon casual viewers. Much as actor Charlton Heston is forever linked with the 1956 film "The Ten Commandments," DeBoskey says, "This movie being made today will shape cultural images, cultural views, cultural attitudes for decades to come."


He says that would be a shame, particularly in the United States, which has been largely free from widespread violent anti-Semitism.

"There is a history of acceptance and tolerance and diversity in America that is unparalleled in the world," he says.

Rabbi Rosenfeld, now of Denver, says that when he arrived in the United States after the end of World War II, "I never felt any barbs or any slighting remarks about my Jewishness. I definitely feel this is the greatest blessing."

And Greenwald says decades ago, when he told his Catholic supervisor that he could not work his post office job on Friday nights because of his Sabbath observance, the man was impressed by the level of his faith and readily adjusted his schedule.

"It's rare for a lawyer to be speechless," Greenwald says, "but I can tell you this: That for about 40 years ... I had only one bad deal in all those years." That time, he says, he felt remarks about Israel's treatment of Palestinians crossed the line into anti-Semitism.

Summers says, the Klan march aside, her life as an Orthodox Jew in Denver has been largely problem-free. In fact, when her son was seeking a hockey league that wouldn't require him to play Saturday games, he found a home in the Shaka Inner City Edge Youth Hockey program. Other players were curious about her son's yarmulke and the tzitzis fringes on his shirt, but once explanations were over, hockey ensued, she says.

DeBoskey says he hopes that sort of tolerance prevails nationwide after the release of "The Passion of the Christ."

"In America," he says, "we can dialogue and argue and disagree. That's the beauty of the freedoms we get here. The rest of the world isn't so lucky."
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:21 pm
The two headlines I'd love to see:

Hey, Idiots! It's A Movie!

- or -

Court Rules Gibson Not Responsible For History
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:00 pm
I guess you don't keep up with the news -- she died during the movie:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375158/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:03 pm
Was Jesus trying to send a message?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:03 pm
Another review:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4360578/
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:11 pm
I know I would absolutely not take my Mom to see this movie. In fact, I started to describe it to her in literal terms and she said she would never see a film like that. I have to admit that Mel is not one her favorite actors. She will watch anything with Kevin Spacey, even if there is some violence in it like "The Usual Suspects."
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:38 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Caprice- It would be great if everyone percieved the movie in the way that you have. My concern is that it will not be the case.


Ya got that right.

I'd like to go see it myself, but it will be a long time before that happens (unless I get a free pass) as I refuse to pay full price for the obscene cost a movie goes for these days. So once it hits the second run theatres, then I'll see it.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:43 pm
Scrat wrote:
One thing is certain: those people caterwauling about this movie have guaranteed it will make Gibson a nice pile of cash. Well done! Cool


Yup. That is what Andy Rooney said. (More or less.)

Go here to see the links I've provided for Mr. Rooney's commentary.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:44 pm
blatham wrote:
Brand X wrote:
I want a movie of the last 24 hours of Satan's life before he was kicked into hell.


Brand

As it happens, I am writing that screenplay right now. Working title...
"The World's First Disgruntled Former Employee"


*LOL* Funny! And blasphemous, all rolled into one!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 07:45 pm
Ever wonder where satan originally came from? The only answer I can come up with is that god "created" him/her/it.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 09:01 pm
Fedral wrote:
I have a friend who is a genuine Odin worshiper, unique but it works for him.


What the heck is that?
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 09:04 pm
c.i.: I don't know if this stems from the Bible or not, but I recall hearing that satan was an angel cast from heaven. An angel gone bad, so to speak. Gee....kinda reminds me of....*slaps a hand over her mouth*

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:37 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ever wonder where satan originally came from? The only answer I can come up with is that god "created" him/her/it.

I always understood Satan to have been one of the archangels, who in his pride challenged God and was sent to rule over hell as his punishment. I just did a quick search on the Bible Gateway, and the passages I find that sort of support this notion are in Revelations:
Quote:
Revelation 12:7-9
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Quote:
Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

I'm not sure quite what to make of this, since I thought Revelations is supposed to be a foretelling of things to come. I found nothing earlier in the Bible to explain how Satan (or Lucifer? I found one source that suggested they were not the same entity) came to be in hell in the past.

Anyone actually know something about this stuff? I thought I did, but found myself confused when I went looking for a citation to back up what I thought I "knew". Confused
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:49 pm
Scrat, Thanks for your efforts. That may be all there is in the bible about satan. It's ironic that the Imperial Dragon in China means strength.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:56 pm
Thanks for the Andy Rooney link, caprice. It brought to mind that I had mentioned what Mel should do with the profit from "Passion." Make a film about St. Sebastian shot through with enough arrows to turn him into a TV antenna. Well, Kurosawa already did the too many arrows schtick in "The Hidden Fortress." If anyone hasn't seen the film, Mifune as the General gets shot with what looks like a hundred arrows and is still walking. One of the more farcical death scenes in film. I'm afraid that's how I came out feeling about "Passion." Jon Stewart had a ball skewing Mel on last night's Daily Show, especially the fool who was manufacturing the spike jewelery as a tie in to the movie. I don't doubt there will be a lot of people who won't see the bad taste in all of this and the film looks like it will reach over 50M by the end of the weekend which means Mel is on his way to making a bundle.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 02:19 am
Yup. It's kinda repugnant. I had no idea about all this other marketing junk until I saw it on one of those entertainment shows on t.v. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

I wish all these threads about this same movie could be streamlined into one 'cause I keep forgetting what I've posted where! *L*
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 07:34 am
No doubt about it. Gibson has descended from the lofty aesthetical and artistic standards of Hollywood to create a film that can exploit perverse fascinations with violence. Nothing so violent has ever before been seen in a film or videogame.
0 Replies
 
satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 08:13 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ever wonder where satan originally came from? The only answer I can come up with is that god "created" him/her/it.

This is off topic, but let me say a few words.
Satan, death, darkness are of negative property. Only things of the positive property will be explained explicitly through God for their existence, and something of negative property will be explained implicitly as the lack of positive property.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 08:25 am
Scrat
It's just a movie.
Is it? Than why are church groups buying thousands of tickets and distributing them to their members. I doubt that it is just a movie to them. Dare I call it religious propaganda.
0 Replies
 
 

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