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Shud Adam have Rejected That Gift ?

 
 
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 06:19 pm
A Question of Religious Philosophy :


The Bible says that God gave Eve to Adam.

Eve subsequently caused Adam
a disasterous loss of Paradise.

Shud Adam have rejected that gift ?


( I am not asking whether he shud have rejected
the apple; I already thought of that; that is not the topic.

The topic is also not whether guys want to have kids or not.
That can be another thread. )
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 06:23 pm
Adam, as a creation of God, accepted everything that God gave to him in faith.

Do you consider the benefit of a partner and helpmate to be a gift that should be shunned?
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 12:05 am
If so Adam would have been the first AND the last.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 01:42 am
Yes
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 10:50 am
Adam could not have predicted his future expulsion from Eden, but he should have rejected the "gift" on the grounds that women are human beings and cannot be "given" as property to any man. If she chose of her own free will to associate with him, fine. If he decided that being naked, ignorant and lonely was preferable to accepting the responsibilities as well as the pleasures of manhood, fine.

But to blame Eve (and through her, all women) for the "loss of paradise" is absolutely wrong. The Judeo-Christian creation myth is a just-so story to explain the existence of suffering (like Pandora's box in Greek mythology). The first creation story in Genesis has God creating men and women together and is plausible for people ignorant of modern science. The second story (in which Eve is created from a rib taken from Adam) is patently ridiculous, as was its use as justification for the subjugation of women. If you believe it, do you think Adam was created with testicles, or were they added later? They would have served no purpose if there were no women. Do you think that God has genitalia, or is of a specific gender? If so, what gender, and why?
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:17 am
Did the dude even have a choice in the matter?

Isn't the story that god just did his magic, took a rib from Adam and created Eve?

Even if he had a choice in this whole furry story, I somehow don't think Adam had the capacity of such forethought and discriminating thinking.
He didn't even know what pain was or working was! He didn't know about suffering at all, right...so he wouldn't think of it.
He'd just take take take whatever was thrown at him without questioning.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:35 am
If you believe in the literal story....

So what if Adam had rejected Eve? She was already created, so would have just gone to another part of the garden to live. Do you think they never would have run into each other?

One or the other of them would have come across each other in their daily activities, probably passing the time of day. I mean, rejecting someone to be your mate doesn't mean you can have a civil conversation.

At some point, Eve, just because it was pretty boring around there, would have said "Hey Adam, come check this out...."

And what about Lilleth? Adam didn't like her either, because he didn't want to be a "bottom"

Do you think God was just going to keep making new women for him?
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 01:54 pm
Well... According to the literal story, didn't Adam ask god for a companion?
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Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 02:01 pm
Who said it's solely Eve's fault? That's a big misconception in the Bible. In the Quran it's both of their faults; Satan whispered to both of them - not just Eve. However, she was made out of Adam's rib; whether you chose to accept it or not is not the point.

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle (PBBUH) said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib, and the most curved portion of the rib is its upper portion, so, if you should try to straighten it, it will break, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain crooked. So treat women nicely."


Anyways, you can't ask these useless 'What if...' questions. God created you and what you do. This was decreed beforehand from God that this would happen.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 05:14 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
Well... According to the literal story, didn't Adam ask god for a companion?


No he didn't.

God saw that Adam needed a companion, and brought all the animals to him, and whatever Adam called them, that's what they were named.

However, God saw that there was no suitable companion amongst the animals for Adam, so God caused Adam to fall into a deep sleep, and created Eve from Adams rib.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 05:23 pm
If Eve was a clone.

Would their relationship be incestuous?

Anyhow its just a story made up by someone to try to explain how people came to be before we knew the science.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 07:04 pm
If Eve were a clone,
she 'd be male.


Quite an interesting point, u have there,
DP: is narcissism incestuous ?
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 08:22 pm
The story is true.

Adam was an amoeba. Not the first man, but the first living organism. The thing which would evolve to be man.

And eve came of adam. This happens still with the simplest organisms. It's called cytogenesis.

The biblical genesis is a poetic tale, not an informative debriefing.

And god is not the bearded father who speaks and has a face and form. It is the abstract idea of a primal cause, which reverberates still like ripples in a pond.

At least, that's how I see it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 08:56 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
Quote:
The story is true.

OK, let 's stay with the story,
for analytical purposes.



Quote:
Adam was an amoeba. Not the first man, but the first living organism.
The thing which would evolve to be man.

If the story is true
and if Adam is the first living organism,
then how can the other animals be brought
before him to be named ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 09:08 pm
Terry wrote:
Quote:
Adam could not have predicted his future expulsion from Eden

Granted.
That makes sense,
but for purposes of our analysis,
let us ( just for fun ) imagine that he cud
turn back the clock; shud he have rejected the apple donor ?




Quote:

, but he should have rejected the "gift" on the grounds that women are
human beings and cannot be "given" as property to any man.
If she chose of her own free will to associate with him, fine.
If he decided that being naked,

Point of information:
if he had rejected her and he was alone,
is it better to avoid being naked ?





Quote:

ignorant and lonely was preferable to accepting the responsibilities
as well as the pleasures of manhood, fine.

But to blame Eve (and through her, all women)

Where did THAT come from ?
I did not say that.


Quote:

for the "loss of paradise" is absolutely wrong.

In the story, who talked him into chomping
on the apple ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 09:14 pm
Chai wrote:
Cyracuz wrote:
Well... According to the literal story, didn't Adam ask god for a companion?


No he didn't.

God saw that Adam needed a companion, and brought all the animals to him, and whatever Adam called them, that's what they were named.

However, God saw that there was no suitable companion amongst the animals for Adam, so God caused Adam to fall into a deep sleep, and created Eve from Adams rib.


Yeah;
I think that 's more accurate.
David
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 09:54 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Quote:

for the "loss of paradise" is absolutely wrong.

In the story, who talked him into chomping
on the apple ?


Wasn't it Satan, and I guess ultimately God?

And are you suggesting that Adam didn't have free will to make the decision for himself. He should blame Eve for all his problems. Couldn't he have said 'No'.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 10:04 pm
maporsche wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Quote:

for the "loss of paradise" is absolutely wrong.

In the story, who talked him into chomping
on the apple ?


Quote:
Wasn't it Satan, and I guess ultimately God?

In the story, it was Eve.




Quote:

And are you suggesting that Adam didn't have free will to make the decision for himself.

I am not suggesting that he had no free will.



Quote:

He should blame Eve for all his problems.
Couldn't he have said 'No'.

No; he cud have said no.

I 'm just asking if he 'd have been better off
if he had rejected the gift.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:36 pm
Several posts without any colour bold type or upsizing.

David, you're slipping son, Getting old or just mellowing?
0 Replies
 
anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 12:46 am
David.... was Satan created by your God in his own image, or was he a God in his own right?
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